Need nautilus shell for sturgeon

LRangerR

Farmer
Okay, @Zen_the_Ogre and @LRangerR play one way, and @BlaDe plays another. Let's not get really judge-y and use loaded words like "cheating" and "denial" maybe?
And it's fine that he plays that way. I personally don't care what he does, I'm just calling it what it is. The reasons @Zen_the_Ogre stated are some of the same reasons I speak up about it. It's not a good habit for new players to get into, and the habit also bleeds over into other games. At that point you might as well be using the cheat mod where you can just spawn anything you want.
 

imnvs

Farmer
A lot of stuff.
If you're looking out for a new player and think they should play the game without mods or exploits the first time, you could say so. That's not what you did, though, like at all.
I'm just calling it what it is.
See, but you're not just doing that. The non-judgmental term is "modding" but you insist on calling modders cheaters in denial. That's a very judgmental term, an opinion. You can't say your opinion is just how it is.
 

LRangerR

Farmer
If you're looking out for a new player and think they should play the game without mods or exploits the first time, you could say so. That's not what you did, though, like at all.

See, but you're not just doing that. The non-judgmental term is "modding" but you insist on calling modders cheaters in denial. That's a very judgmental term, an opinion. You can't say your opinion is just how it is.
To be fair I never said I wasn't being judgmental. And I don't call all modders cheaters in denial. Only the ones who use cheat-esque mods and claim they're playing fair. At any rate, I don't want to muck up this thread any more than it already is, so I'm just going to leave it at that.
 

BlaDe

Tiller
I never mentioned modding. I also never pushed.

The technique first mentioned was restarting the day to reroll the item received in the mail. Some think this is cheating, some do not.

Calling it cheating implies it is bad. I was pushing back on this point.
 

Zen_the_Ogre

Sodbuster
I never mentioned modding. I also never pushed.

The technique first mentioned was restarting the day to reroll the item received in the mail. Some think this is cheating, some do not.

Calling it cheating implies it is bad. I was pushing back on this point.
Your mod is cheating. Put item x here get non randomized item is very much cheating. It's no different than using a gameshark to mod a save file to get unlimited master balls or all pokemon are shiny. Would you call cheat if a casino modded a roulette table with a magnet bouncer to make sure you only when they want you to.
 

BlaDe

Tiller
Your mod is cheating. Put item x here get non randomized item is very much cheating. It's no different than using a gameshark to mod a save file to get unlimited master balls or all pokemon are shiny. Would you call cheat if a casino modded a roulette table with a magnet bouncer to make sure you only when they want you to.
This is where we differ.

I play to push the game as far as I can within the vanilla client.

Playing with the predictor, you are still within the bounds of the game. You can manip for rare things, but it can't give you impossible things.

Comparing it to gameshark codes in pokemon is wrong. Compare it to soft resetting and throwing the ball on a certain frame to guarantee a catch.

The predictor is RNG manip, not item insertion.

You may still think it is cheating, and that is fine. But it is not modding.
 

Elenna101

Sodbuster
The comparisons to die games/casinos are not quite accurate, since those are competitive, while Stardew is a cooperative (and often single-player) game. The important question IMO is not "is this cheating" but rather "is everyone having fun".

In a competitive game, it's important to avoid cheating, because people will not be having fun if they lose to a cheater. And even then, I'd argue that some cheats which are agreed on by everyone can be okay. For example, when I play Monopoly, I play with unlimited houses/hotels. This is arguably "cheating", since the rulebook explicitly states that the number of houses/hotels should be limited (in order to shorten the game). But pretty much everyone I've played with prefers houses/hotels to be unlimited, because it's less frustrating that way.

In a cooperative/singleplayer game like Stardew, as long as the actual person playing is having fun, does it really matter? Sure, you can discuss what is and is not fun, but there's a really big difference between "hey, I don't think manipulating the game like that is fun" versus "you're cheating". The former is an opinion, the latter is an insult.

You'll notice, incidentally, that I didn't say "you should reset the day". I just presented an option that the original poster could use if they wanted. They're free to not do that if they don't think it'll be fun, but more information never hurts. (Personally I would find it far less fun to fail at a self-imposed challenge just because I got bad luck on a mail gift that I couldn't do anything about, but YMMV.)

@LRangerR , I specifically included this "this is arguably cheating" bit in my post in order to not get into this argument with you. Would you prefer that I not include that in the future?
 

LRangerR

Farmer
@Elenna101
Like I already said, I personally don't care what Blade does in his own game. It's just a bad habit for new players to get into. IMO. For the reasons that Zen already stated.

Perhaps I should have placed an emote on my first "totally cheating" post, but it was meant to be said with tongue-in-cheek.
 

Worblehat

Farmhand
Which character is it that says something like "some people will do anything for free stuff" when referring to stuff dropping off the train?
It's the Livin' Off The Land guy on TV, I think Summer 1 Year 2.

Re: the "cheating" debate - the game can and does pre-define outcomes in some cases (geodes, upcoming weather, apparently these fish pond quests if I'm reading one of BlaDe's comments correctly, probably lots of other things). Gifts are not in the set of things with pre-defined outcomes, therefore resetting to get a different gift is not cheating. Usually not worth the bother, in my opinion, though I do sometimes reset to get Maru to give me a real bomb instead of a cherry bomb or more fried mushrooms (and that only because it costs me less than ten seconds, so why not).

If a future update makes gifts pre-defined, that's fine too, but until then there's nothing wrong with resetting if you care that much about getting the ideal gift.

As Elenna101 said, it's a single-player game, people can do whatever they want and it's nobody else's business.
 

LRangerR

Farmer
As Elenna101 said, it's a single-player game, people can do whatever they want and it's nobody else's business.
At least on this part we can agree. So in the end it's up to the OP what he wants to do, now that he's seen a relatively fair share of both sides of the argument.
 

Anhaga

Planter
@Elenna101
Like I already said, I personally don't care what Blade does in his own game. It's just a bad habit for new players to get into. IMO.
For you it is a bad habit. For others it is a "how to make the game not stressful because I'm playing this to relax." It's fine that you wouldn't do this in your own game. But the key that a lot of folks are pointing out here is that judging people as "cheating" or "getting into bad habits" is basically telling them that you see the practices they use to make the game fun are bad, wrong, and Against Some Kind of Rule You Hold For Yourself. If you aren't trying to shame folks, even obliquely, don't throw the negative terms in.

We all have our own playstyles. None of them are wrong. Some don't work for everyone for a range of reasons, including philosophical objections to rerolling. That doesn't make them bad or somehow Less Good. Can we all agree on that, no caveats, and no further shade thrown?
 

Anhaga

Planter
And OP, I feel your pain. This kind of thing is why I have weird hoards of stuff in chests all over my house. I've had one too many situations where I've not had the thing I needed (I'm lookin' at you, blue dwarf scroll!) for a fish point pond or NPC request, and have as a result become a random stuff collector.

Now if only someone would actually ask for one of those chicken statuettes . . . does anyone else dig up tons of those things on their farms?
 

LRangerR

Farmer
Can we all agree on that, no caveats, and no further shade thrown?
It's implying to new players that being manipulative is okay.

There are more than one ways to relax, and I get it. Hell, just last night i scythed up one of my baby mushroom trees (I'm not to the point where I have seeds). I damn near reset the day but no, I decided instead that I would learn from that mistake and keep it. I've said multiple times that people can play the way they want, i honestly don't care. But pushing those habits of theirs onto new players, and then denying that it's cheating, is a whole different topic than what you're talking about.

Everyone was ready to drop the topic until you posted, or so it seemed, btw.
 
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BlaDe

Tiller
Options were provided with caveats that people may not like to do them.

Providing options is not pushing.

Manipping RNG is well within my own defined ruleset for how I play the game.

Insisting that playing this way is cheating is what I take exception to; it is like you are making decisions for other players.

I am well aware that there are people who dont like to play this way. However I am not going to stop providing these methods as options. But I am always upfront about what these options entail, to let players decide for themselves if it fits within their own rules.
 

LRangerR

Farmer
Insisting that playing this way is cheating is what I take exception to; it is like you are making decisions for other players.
It is impossible for me to make those kinds of decisions, which is why I don't try to. I'm just letting them know that there will lasting effects of their preferred style of play, and not all of them will be beneficial.
 

imnvs

Farmer
It is impossible for me to make those kinds of decisions, which is why I don't try to. I'm just letting them know that there will lasting effects of their preferred style of play, and not all of them will be beneficial.
Yes, but LRangerR, you come across as preachy and judgmental, which is why folks are pushing back against you. Yes, you say anyone can play however they like, but you attach a value to playing in ways you don't like.
 

LRangerR

Farmer
Yes, but LRangerR, you come across as preachy and judgmental, which is why folks are pushing back against you. Yes, you say anyone can play however they like, but you attach a value to playing in ways you don't like.
It's not that I dont like it. I do similar things like resets on different games as well. I just don't try to pretend that it's not, and I also wasn't trying to attach a negative stigma to it. Someone said "arguably cheating" and I said "totally cheating". If someone wants to take this and other things in a negative light that's on them, but any negative stigma i may have had was directed at Blade's attitude, not the actions the he and similar players were taking to enjoy the game more.
 
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