Language Barrier at the Forum

[Laissez_Faire_Farming]

I have some suggestions on how to communicate better with people who are not fluent in English.
To tell you a bit about myself, I am a polyglot and I understand the difficulty of not being able to explain in English.
I understand it is hard to explain or describe the technical problems as well because we are not familiar with software engineers' jargon.

As you can see, there are many people all around the world coming to these forums to share their interests and fixing their bugs or technical issues.
Wouldn't be great for them to type in their own language in one paragraph and add another paragraph translated in Google translation in one post?
The reason why I recommend is to facilitate others to understand some technical issues.

Let say for example,
Someone describe their problem in their language, then add another information from google English Translation.
This is how I am suggesting international people post like that in the forum.

Korean:
내 SV 게임이 작동하지 않습니다

Translated in Google Translation:
My SV game does not work

Also, I need to mention that the google translation is not perfect... – the transplanted English sounds awkward sometimes. If misunderstood, we can make some effort to ask them some questions to understand their issues...

What do you think?

 

[imnvs]

So... upgrade the forum software to accept any language, detect non-English languages, query Google for the translation and automatically include this translation? That sounds absolutely awesome... but I think it beyond the scope of our Admin and Moderators. The forum software was developed by other people and then licensed by CA and his team, if I understand correctly, so they have to work within the limits of what other folk programmed. This may be something they can suggest to the folks that made the software, though.

 

[Laissez_Faire_Farming]

So... upgrade the forum software to accept any language, detect non-English languages, query Google for the translation and automatically include this translation? That sounds absolutely awesome... but I think it beyond the scope of our Admin and Moderators. The forum software was developed by other people and then licensed by CA and his team, if I understand correctly, so they have to work within the limits of what other folk programmed. This may be something they can suggest to the folks that made the software, though.

I like that. I wonder if CA and other developers could do that.
I want to see what the Mod thinks about your idea.

 

[Odin]

If I understood correctly, I think the original suggestion is just for the forum rules to be updated to explicitly allow people to send messages in other languages as long as they include a copy of that text in English? We'll definitely discuss this!

I've seen some people already use this method around the forums from time to time, like in this thread: https://forums.stardewvalley.net/threads/8741/. The Multiplayer section allows all languages so this setup isn't required there, but I can definitely see its benefits.

 

[Laissez_Faire_Farming]

If I understood correctly, I think the original suggestion is just for the forum rules to be updated to explicitly allow people to send messages in other languages as long as they include a copy of that text in English? We'll definitely discuss this!

I've seen some people already use this method around the forums from time to time, like in this thread: https://forums.stardewvalley.net/threads/8741/. The Multiplayer section allows all languages so this setup isn't required there, but I can definitely see its benefits.

Yes! This is exactly what I am talking about.
They should include a copy text in English. –if possible we could use google translation.
I am looking forward to continue this discussion.

 

[boyliker]

I absolutely agree!!! Given that we have translation tools at our disposal I think it's a really good idea to utilize them and make the site more accessible to non-english speakers/people who's motherlang isn't english =] Really good idea!

 

[Quirinea]

I have some suggestions on how to communicate better with people who are not fluent in English.
To tell you a bit about myself, I am a polyglot and I understand the difficulty of not being able to explain in English.
I understand it is hard to explain or describe the technical problems as well because we are not familiar with software engineers' jargon.

As you can see, there are many people all around the world coming to these forums to share their interests and fixing their bugs or technical issues.
Wouldn't be great for them to type in their own language in one paragraph and add another paragraph translated in Google translation in one post?
The reason why I recommend is to facilitate others to understand some technical issues.

Let say for example,
Someone describe their problem in their language, then add another information from google English Translation.
This is how I am suggesting international people post like that in the forum.



Also, I need to mention that the google translation is not perfect... – the transplanted English sounds awkward sometimes. If misunderstood, we can make some effort to ask them some questions to understand their issues...

What do you think?

Hmmm. Google translate definitely is not perfect (being a speaker of a language that is not Indo-European [Finnish]. But the idea of allowing (especially technical issues) being asked in any language with some kind of translation would make it easier for people who are not fluent in English. When the question is there in original, someone fluent in both that language and English would jump in an help to narrow the language gap.
I'm afraid putting in a "Babelfish" would be technically hard, but anyone can either try to use their English, even imperfect or Google translate.

BTW a prohibition to use a certain language (or any language but English) sounds -- krhm -- discriminating. I can see one reason, having at some time been cleaning hundreds of spam messages in Chinese from a forum (with discussions mainly in English), and of course it's hard to discuss if you don't understand each other.

 

[Laissez_Faire_Farming]

((All technicians are welcome to share their opinions in this thread.))
@Quirinea
Your opinion is important to us.
Please, I suggest you continue to share your thoughts about it because I know you are a polyglot and have a background in computer science.

You know what? I agree with everything that you said.
Yes, we need to discuss further the risks and future conflicts.
This is probably something we should continue to discuss before making a decision.

Yes, I do agree that all the translators are not perfect. I am glad you brought up Babelfish in that discussion.
Additionally, I am aware that opening the door globally would lead to some international spam. –nobody wants that.

 

[Odin]

If it's any consolation, spammers are going to spam in whatever language they want to, no matter what the rules say. There many different ways in which moderating languages you don't speak is time consuming and difficult, but things like reading tone and intent or understanding more casual/slang meanings are where it gets very difficult or impossible.

 

[mouse]

This is usually how I reply to people asking questions in another language. It's definitely not perfect, just a hope that between my translation or theirs something will get through, along with keeping it understandable and searchable for people reading now or in the future.

(I do think there's a difference between non-English for support purposes and non-English in general, though, even if forums may not have as much trouble keeping up as live-chat. It's not necessarily a vote against, for whatever my vote counts for anyway, just that I don't think that English-only forums when the devs and moderators primarily all speak English is weird. It's a very tiny amount of people moderating for a now 2-person indie game, even if it is a popular one, so whichever way it goes I'm sure they have good intent and are just trying things out.)

 

[Quirinea]

(I do think there's a difference between non-English for support purposes and non-English in general, though, even if forums may not have as much trouble keeping up as live-chat. It's not necessarily a vote against, for whatever my vote counts for anyway, just that I don't think that English-only forums when the devs and moderators primarily all speak English is weird. It's a very tiny amount of people moderating for a now 2-person indie game, even if it is a popular one, so whichever way it goes I'm sure they have good intent and are just trying things out.)

I can see that the resources are scanty, as this is an Indie game. But the game itself has been translated into several languages, and there probably are players who are not fluent in English. I could understand "no other languages" if the game itself had no language versions -- then you could not play anyway if you didn't understand enough English.

 

[Laissez_Faire_Farming]

@Quirinea
I can see that it would give a headache and a lot of frustration for not understanding them.
Although our resources are scanty, I guess a little bit of perseverance would be appreciated. —not everyone is good at fixing or understanding the problem.
I never experienced helping people through live chat, as mouse said.
I can see the benefits from it.
If other technicians do not feel confident about it, it is okay to apologize politely and give up. Then, wait for another technician to fix it.

 

[mtspower]

This is definitely a good idea. I like how you figured this problem, and also as a good person you've come with a good solution for such a common problem! You see, english is not my main language, since I'm brazilian my native language is portuguese (that's why my english is so bad btw).

Ty very much, really, thank you for thinking about a problem wich doenst have anything to do with you, that is noble of you!

 

[imnvs]

You see, english is not my main language, since I'm brazilian my native language is portuguese (that's why my english is so bad btw).

I went to public school here in the US. Your English seems as good as about half the folks I knew in school. You're doing fine, my friend.

 

[Laissez_Faire_Farming]

I had a private message with @Sarettapo recently.
I noticed she needed some technical assistance.
I spoke with her in both English and Italian.

I am going to share a thread to demonstrate –as experimentation in using auto-translation.
I have experimented with DeepL translation in the Italian language.
I am looking forward to the progress.

Edit: ((I notice more international people asking for help.))

 

[Corvus]

On another game I play, I have an account on the "North American" server which should be more properly called the New World server because there are a fair number of people on it who are in Brazil and a smaller amount in Argentina -- virtually everyone else are in the US or Canada. The forum for the server has an International Forums section with Fórum Brasileiro and Foro en Español sub-sections with 19,000 and 17,000 posts, respectively. It's small potatoes compared to the 4-million posts in the main section but at least they are being served.

 

[Quirinea]

If it's any consolation, spammers are going to spam in whatever language they want to, no matter what the rules say. There many different ways in which moderating languages you don't speak is time consuming and difficult, but things like reading tone and intent or understanding more casual/slang meanings are where it gets very difficult or impossible.

Usually it is (if you know the language even a little) it is easy to distinguish between spam and a poor person asking for technical help. I can decipher somehow about any Romance or German language.

 

[Laissez_Faire_Farming]

Usually it is (if you know the language even a little) it is easy to distinguish between spam and a poor person asking for technical help. I can decipher somehow about any Romance or German language.

Are you suggesting that the members should help the mods distinguish the spam and regular posts?
Do you trust people at the forum?

 

[mouse]

(This actually seems like a great example of what Odin was saying, because I read that comment not as "it's hard to distinguish between spammers and regular posters" but rather "spammers are spammers in any language, but the challenges of understanding casual language use and and implicit meaning goes beyond just what needs deleted" )

 

[Laissez_Faire_Farming]

Mods are here to make us safe from disputes, negative arguments, and reading disturbing messages.
I noticed that they need to read our posts all in English...

Here's an idea.
Most of the Bugs, Multiplayer, and Mods support threads should remain bilingual posts. –If the players have a hard time explaining in English.
They should post both in English and another language in one post.

All the rest of the threads would be 100% English...
In that way, we would decrease the number of spam in a different language.
As time progresses, we will discuss again if we feel more comfortable having a non-English speaking forum in the future.
I am suggesting taking a baby step.
What do you think?