Fruits for greenhouse

As much as I try to like Starfruit, having to replant so often just became too impractical and labor-intensive for me personally, but that's because I'm a lazy ("labor reduction") farmer. Basically, I don't want to have to re-sew something every harvest, it gets old for me fast, making it personally impractical. I'm not a keen farmer though, I prefer to be freed up for other tasks, everyone is different in what tasks they enjoy. I dont enjoy long-term farming. If I had to just farm, I'm sure I'd be a terrible farmer! 😆

With ancient fruit and a fully established/maxed, I get multiple yields before having to burn some of that to make seeds again for replanting, so I feel like it gets me farther once my crop is full size, though maybe it isn't much, or accurate. Making seeds each harvest is also not a fun activity for me, it is a waiting drudgery, so that's probably it. I can't help wonder though, for a fully established and full sized crop. about how many starfruit would have to be sacrificed per yearly yield, in order to create seeds, and how that would affect the year-long profits when head to-head (between star vs ancient fruit) if that multiple re-seeding fruit loss was subtracted from overall yearly value and then compared. I just assumed that it would change the value in favor of Ancient Fruit for once and for all, but maybe it doesn't. I have not bothered to try estimating this though, because I'd still never use it.

As Miss-Lazy farmer, I'm game only for sewing fruit once per year, harvesting lots, and seeding only once per year outside too (or never again in the greenhouse, which to me is the even better) lol. 😝
 
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Elenna101

Farmer
As much as I try to like Starfruit, having to replant so often just became too impractical and labor-intensive for me personally, but that's because I'm a lazy ("labor reduction") farmer. Basically, I don't want to have to re-sew something every harvest, it gets old for me fast, making it impractical. I'm not a keen farmer though, I prefer to be freed up for other tasks, and everyone is different in what tasks they enjoy. If I had to just farm, I'm sure I'd be a terrible farmer! 😆

I also can't help think about how many fruit have to be sacrificed per yield for seeds (on a fully maxed crop size planting I mean). With ancient fruit, I get multiple yields before having to burn some of that to make seeds again for replanting, so I feel like it gets me farther once my crop is full size, though maybe it isn't much, or accurate. Making seeds each harvest is also not a fun activity for me, it is a waiting drudgery, so that's probably it.

Maybe starfruit is still better over a year, even after averaging out and subtracting from profits the approximate value of fruit needed to sacrifice for seed for multiple re-sewings? I always wonder about this but haven't sat down to approximate the math because I'd still never use it, but maybe someone whose profit-keen might?

I'm totally game for sewing only once, harvesting lots, and seeding only once per year (or never again in the greenhouse) lol.
Are you making starfruit into wine? Because if so, you'll make better profit by just buying the seeds instead of putting them through a seed maker. One starfruit wine sells for 2,250 (or 3,150 with Artisan), and you get 2 seeds on average from putting it into a seed maker, so essentially it's costing you 2,250/2 = 1,125 per seed. Meanwhile you can just buy the seeds for 400 from Sandy, which also takes a lot less waiting.

Anyways, if you're buying the seeds, starfruit is similar profit to ancient fruit - I think slightly less with deluxe speed-gro and slightly more with hyper speed-gro. I'll agree that only sowing the seeds once is nice though.
 
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I was still editing in progress when quoted, sorry, my post may have been refined quite a bit. Yep, making Starfruit wine, but, my main question is the head to head yearly profit comparison (both outside and in greenhouse) beteen Starfruit and Ancient Fruit, given that starfruit has to be re-sewn every time it is harvested, and that cost (of either seeds or sacrificing fruit to seed) would need to be subtracted each time multiple times, where it would only need to be done once for Ancient fruit (ignoring also the extra labor too of course)?

In essence, are people looking only at early gross profit or longer term net? Also, I don't bother casking fruit wines, goat cheese seems more profitable and/or efficient for that. The problem I see with many of the comparisons are they don't go true head to head for longer than a week/month/season, or they omit initial numbers and provide only final numbers for things like casking, which I know Ancient fruit won't perform well at (and I won't do).

So, my question was geared more towards thinking year long, and especially if folks are subtracting this continual re-sewing cost from that profit or not to get a true net profit? If they did, I wonder if the recommendation would hold long term in that case.... I'd imagine there'd be an eventual threshold where value might cross over between the two fruit types.

Ah, nevermind, I should just do the math even though I'll never use Starfruit, though I'll do a bunch more searches first. I just wondered if anyone had already done longer-term net calculations and if the same holds at 1 year, 2 or 5, or if the inefficiency of replanting would finally also catch up in overall adjusted costs associated with multiple sewings. The labor alone long term for me was a put off, but if it also crosses over, then (for me) it also doesn't make logical long-term sense.

Edit: AHA! Wooohooo! Sorry and nevermind 😋, I finally found one (linked) that gives numbers plus visuals before the silly casks come into play (some posts I've found deliberaly ignore the numbers without cask value which seems to be cherry picking a bit), it is still missing a dimension (doesn't subtract ongoing seed cost from profit) but is a good starting point.

Looking at the graph, looks like benefit does cross over (at least Starfruit with deluxe speed grow initially starts out more profitable until ancient fruit without fertilizer crosses into the lead given enough time), and it appears to do that before working out the net (subtracting ongoing seed buying/making, of which Starfruit requires far more). I'd have to check the numbers though to make sure they're still current, maybe something has changed. It just made me wonder, because it is easy to look at short term profit and forget about long term, which seems more important to me personally, since I'm probably going to be playing and planting the same thing longer than an in-game year (nice to not have to double my efforts).

Also, it is neat to see some folks hybridize and use both too which is an interesting strategy, maybe capitalizing first on the faster and initially better profits of Starfruit early, before transitioning to Ancient Fruit:

In early game in my most recent new run though, I tended to like rapid or prolific constantly producing crops like blueberries for making quick and easy profits before I got my hands on much Starfruit, ancient fruit and other seeds, and especially the seed maker. My preferences have been changing over time too as I explore.
 
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Paco LS

Greenhorn
[QUOTE = "ShneekeyTheLost, publicación: 50800, miembro: 3097"]
Es una progresión geométrica. Recuerde también que puede obtener varias semillas por fruta que ponga en un Seed Maker. En promedio, obtienes dos. Así que aquí tienes un ejemplo de progresión.

Semana 4: 1 fruta (2 semillas)
Semana 5: 1 fruta (2 semillas más)
Semana 6: 1 fruta (2 semillas más)
Semana 7: 1 fruta (2 semillas más)
Semana 8: 3 frutas (6 semillas)
Semana 9: 5 frutas (10 semillas)
Semana 10: 7 frutas (14 semillas)
Semana 11: 9 frutas (18 semillas)
Semana 12:15 frutas, por lo que se plantaron 30 semillas
Semana 13:25 frutas, en este punto ya casi ha terminado de volver a plantar y solo espera que el resto termine de crecer, porque son otras 50 semillas
Semana 14, 39 frutas
Semana 15:57 frutas
Semana 16: 87 frutas
Semana 17: Las 116 frutas antiguas ahora están completamente florecidas y estás listo para comenzar a procesar

Eso es, por supuesto, asumiendo una sola semilla y un promedio de dos semillas por fruto.

La ventaja es que si desea plantar afuera en la primavera 1 para las cosechas de un año, puede pasar la fruta de una semana a través de un Seed Maker por un par de cientos de frutas.
[/CITA]
Wow, thanks for your work! So 17 weeks are 4 seasons more or less... Mmmm maybe is a short time?
 

Elenna101

Farmer
I was still editing in progress when quoted, sorry, my post may have been refined quite a bit. Yep, making Starfruit wine, but, my main question is the head to head yearly profit comparison (both outside and in greenhouse) beteen Starfruit and Ancient Fruit, given that starfruit has to be re-sewn every time it is harvested, and that cost (of either seeds or sacrificing fruit to seed) would need to be subtracted each time multiple times, where it would only need to be done once for Ancient fruit (ignoring also the extra labor too of course)?

In essence, are people looking only at early gross profit or longer term net? Also, I don't bother casking fruit wines, goat cheese seems more profitable and/or efficient for that. The problem I see with many of the comparisons are they don't go true head to head for longer than a week/month/season, or they omit initial numbers and provide only final numbers for things like casking, which I know Ancient fruit won't perform well at (and I won't do).

So, my question was geared more towards thinking year long, and especially if folks are subtracting this continual re-sewing cost from that profit or not to get a true net profit? If they did, I wonder if the recommendation would hold long term in that case.... I'd imagine there'd be an eventual threshold where value might cross over between the two fruit types.

Ah, nevermind, I should just do the math even though I'll never use Starfruit, though I'll do a bunch more searches first. I just wondered if anyone had already done longer-term net calculations and if the same holds at 1 year, 2 or 5, or if the inefficiency of replanting would finally also catch up in overall adjusted costs associated with multiple sewings. The labor alone long term for me was a put off, but if it also crosses over, then (for me) it also doesn't make logical long-term sense.
Yeah, what I said above about them being about the same (worse with deluxe speed-gro, better with hyper-speed-gro) is taking into account starfruit seed costs (buying seeds, not seed makers) and looking at long-term profit, that is, assuming cost of ancient fruit seeds is 0 because it averages out to 0 in the long term.

(Also, IIRC starfruit wine makes more money than goat cheese in two seasons in casks. That being said, the amount you can cask is miniscule compared to the amount of wine you can produce, so I mostly just ignore it when looking at profit.)

(Also, sorry, but it's bothering me - "sow", as in planting, is spelled with an o. "Sew" is the thing you do with needle and thread.)
 

imnvs

Local Legend
Wow, thanks for your work! So 17 weeks are 4 seasons more or less... Mmmm maybe is a short time?
His numbers and mine are basically the same. I just stopped when you planted the last seed, while his continued until you would expect the last to start providing fruit. So yes, just over 3 seasons to get them all planted and 4 seasons or 1 year to get them all producing.

And yes, starfruit wine is the #1 best thing to put in a cask in your cellar on the basis of gold value increase over time.
 
Yeah, what I said above about them being about the same (worse with deluxe speed-gro, better with hyper-speed-gro) is taking into account starfruit seed costs (buying seeds, not seed makers) and looking at long-term profit, that is, assuming cost of ancient fruit seeds is 0 because it averages out to 0 in the long term.

(Also, IIRC starfruit wine makes more money than goat cheese in two seasons in casks. That being said, the amount you can cask is miniscule compared to the amount of wine you can produce, so I mostly just ignore it when looking at profit.)

(Also, sorry, but it's bothering me - "sow", as in planting, is spelled with an o. "Sew" is the thing you do with needle and thread.)
Thanks for clarifying that cost was indeed taken into account!

Yeah, I have a MS that causes substitutions in how my brain wants to spell things. Believe it or not, prior to MS eating my brain, I finished my Masters (in a year while working) and was headed towards my Ph.D, so, imagine the shock when my written language tanked (though that was the least of my issues then). The resultant cognitive problems affected reading and writing. Good thing I never fully started the latter academic pursuit, I never would have finished writing the "book" it essentially requiresIf a wrong word used twice elicits such a reaction, imagine reading that nightmare. 😆

My brain not only eats words and spelling, it also randomly omits or doubles letters/words that it refuses to see as wrong, even on many edits. The former forces to me to rely largely on phonetics, which of course half or more of the English language does adhere to. An education issue is the most common assumption made unless speaking with me, since verbal language resides in a different brain area than writing, is more innate than writing, and remains largely untouched... although my brain also substitutes words with those stored close to or associated with the desired one (imagine the frustration).

For these reasons, I'll always irk the spelling and/or grammar-rigid/police... I'm also never going to learn to fix it, since despite knowing, my brain can't see the difference anymore or immediately and randomly forgets. Inflammation governs days and extent of difficulty, and the difficulty has nothing to do with not knowing the difference or not being educated, it has everything to do with the brain's damaged capacity to correctly recall and asseble writing coherently while dividing its attention (there are multiple processes involved in the act of writing, including physical ones which are no longer automatic, and the coordination of these is also impaired). Imagine having to think about every move of your hands while writing.

Rather than deal with comments like this everywhere, I usually put something in my profile as I did here. If the issue still comes up, I take the opportunity to explain the other myriad of reasons for it (other than education) for the people affected, to (hopefully) help reduce call-out and misconceptions about it. My issue is a stripped-insulation (and holes) "wiring issue":

"We're sorry, your call for correct word or letter cannot be completed as dialed, please hang up and try your CNS again!"
I also have to have humor about it. For a person with "black holes" in her brain, I'd say I'm actually doing pretty good! 🤪 And, rather than choosing not to write at all (as some do from discouragement), I choose to write using my faulty method, so at least my contribution is there for those that choose to read for ideas and intent over correctness or fault. So, I will write unashamedly in my flawed way, and smile when it drives others bonkers... good luck with that! 😜 Sometimes later I can finally "see" my mistakes (and feel like a dork for making them), but more often I can't. At these times I need to be kind to myself and remember it's out of my control. I also realize how illogical it is to criticize what is essentially a non-preventable "electrical" and/or mechanical failure.

I do feel it important to mention (apologies for being direct, it is well-intended), that it is considered rude to correct another adult's speaking, reading, or writing (if it were my child or a family member, that might be different). Truthfully, there was a time when I didn’t understand the "why" behind not pointing out writing or speaking errors, though I do now, for the reasons mentioned and more. It's also okay to not be aware until someone explains it! That, is completely natural, so thank you for allowing me to explain. I sometimes fight the impulse to do this also (and try to catch myself).

I tend to ask people to imagine what it is like to wake up with these deficits while young-ish... because that's exactly what happened (e.g., 20-40 is the typical age for MS onset). Yep, you can probably guess, it stinks bad and is already challenging. Now imagine it being pointed out often (and how discouraging that might be). I've partially trained myself before reacting, to remember that my critical thinking and other brain functions are still fully intact, and I have more important things going on than to let jumbled characters or words derail my communication. I personally understand the impact that spotlighting such issues can have on others, especially someone newly struggling (no worries, I'm not). It is difficult to continually seize the opportunity to expand awareness about why it is problematic to single this kind of thing out (it gets exhausting).

It's important also to know that difficulties/disabilities often aren't obvious, this kind of writing impairment has no affect on intelligence, it is a processing, access, and process-coordination issue for me. A lot of folks aren't aware that pointing out speaking or writing mistakes is impolite/inappropriate, and in particular the "whys" behind it, es
especially when they are well-intended. That's totally fair... also, my apologies for responding in kind (because you yourself could be struggling with something and I wouldn't know), this is not directed at you so much as it is just a great opportunity to address the topic overall in this community.

Also, our digital devices are decent but not great at: recognizing typos, auto-correcting, and/or recognizing voice-dictated words or phrases properly. Any of the aforementioned can cause writing mistakes that are easy to read past (passed? No, "past..." I think, but can't tell olol--my inability to distinguish is worse when tired). Most of us "speak fluent typo" now too and are used to glossing over these. Attempts at multitasking or conditions causing numb fingers can also result in these errors, not to mention English as a Second Language (ESL) writing. So, while It might drive others a bit crazy to read these kinds of errors, imagine having to grapple with any of all of the issues mentioned, and then to have to fend off or explain it everywhere, to dispel (often uncharitable) misconceptions. Or even more invasive, having to post such personal info in one's user profile in an effort to reduce needing to do such. In the words of Homer Simpson: "D'OH!"

I hope you were able to read this all the humor as it was written with, sorry for also being so blunt. FYI, you'll see lots more "bad" stuff in my writing. My spoken language is fully intact, but voice dictate only works for folks who don't occasionally slur words (also neuro-related, imagine the assumptions made on that in public before lessening, I initially started using a cane in order to combat assumptions that I was drunk at 8 am on my way to work lol). You'd need to be the writing equivalent of a code-cracker to decipher my voice dictated writing! 😂 lol

All humor aside though, all I can do is ask people to please read with a forgiving eye, because some day it seriously could be them (or may already be). If folks can't read past (? darn my broken brain) such things, I understand (sort of). I'd just ask such folks to please use the ignore button rather than putting me on the spot (the on-the-spot thing results in similar renditions of this PSA "novel" lol). Despite our propensity towards optimism bias, none of us gets out of life alive without functional deficits, so in my opinion, learning to adapt to and accept them in positive ways (in ourselves or others) may be an important skill for the future.
 
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A few quick notes:

- Starfruit is indeed more profitable in casks. It's 10 gold per day per cask difference, which over 125 casks would be 1250 per day, or 8,7500 per week, or 140,000 per year, in favor of Starfruit.
- Total net over a year of Ancient Fruit is 4,287,360 assuming it all gets converted into Wine with Artisan, before considering Cask aging. That's 16 harvests per year at 116 per crop and 2310 per wine bottle sold, and requires 116 kegs to process fully.
- Total net over a year for Starfruit is dependent on what you're using (Deluxe Speed Gro vs Hyper Speed Gro, Agriculturalist vs not, etc). Going with the "easiest" setup of Deluxe Speed Gro and no Agriculturalist, it's 4,384,800 profit, minus 556,800 seed costs, for a total net of 3,828,000. If you use switching to Agriculturalist to get a total of 14 harvests in, you're looking at 5,115,600 from 14 crops minus 649,600 in seed costs and 280,000 in skill switching costs for a total of 4,186,000. None of these are including fertilizer costs since you don't need to replace the fertilizer after it's down.
- You lose about 500,000 transitioning to Ancient Fruit. Assuming you're using Deluxe Speed Gro in both cases, doing a per-tile comparison, in its first month of growth Ancient Fruit produces on average 1.5 wine (since 1/2 of the first harvest goes to generating seeds) or 3,465. Across the entire Greenhouse that's 401,940 total. Starfruit produces its normal 3 per tile, or 9,450 per tile, for 1,096,200 across the greenhouse minus seed costs of 174,000. Total 922,000, a difference of 520,060. This means that if you have 125 casks, it takes between 1 and 1.5 years before Ancient Fruit becomes more profitable than Starfruit, if you never skill swap. If you don't have casks but do skill swap, it takes 5 full years for Ancient Fruit to become more profitable than Starfruit. This is assuming you don't get Hyper Speed-Gro in the interim, as Starfruit becomes more profitable (both with and without skill swapping) than Ancient Fruit the moment Hyper Speed-Gro is down.

For me, I'm using Starfruit right now on Ginger Island, because I'm keg limited more than anything so I can make more profit that way than with Ancient Fruit, not to mention I know that since it's 5x as large as a Greenhouse I'd lose out on around 2,500,000 switching over and I need obelisks and such ASAP. To replant, I just have a fresh stack of Starfruit seeds in my hands as I'm pulling crops, and I'm pulling crops and putting down replacements at the same time (much like pulling keg products and putting in replacements at the same time). I find it's marginally more work than just pulling crops, but not significantly more. Outdoors on the main farm, where Starfruit can't grow year-round, it's not even close of course and I plan on growing Ancient Fruit there.
 
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imnvs

Local Legend
I'm thinking to have some fruit trees too.
Any ideas about it?
Depends on what you're looking for. I have at least 1 of every tree around the inside of the exterior wall. You can fit in 18 trees that way. Those that can be used in cooking I have at least 2 (mango, apple, apricot) and then I fill in the rest (8 spaces left) with bananas.
 

Paco LS

Greenhorn
Depends on what you're looking for. I have at least 1 of every tree around the inside of the exterior wall. You can fit in 18 trees that way. Those that can be used in cooking I have at least 2 (mango, apple, apricot) and then I fill in the rest (8 spaces left) with bananas.
Why 8 bananas? Some reason or do you like it? Hahaha
 

Tom

Farmer
Ancient Seed:
I have commonly used the bug-grinding method to get Ancient Seed. But in a recent Pacifist/Vegan run (no bugs and no fishing treasure chests), I used Schneekey's SeedMaker method. After a few hundred tries (several seed makers going at once), I had my coveted Ancient Seeds. It was no more tedious nor impossible than I expected.

Starfruit:
The two advantages of Starfruit over Ancient Fruit (AF is slightly more profitable per space in Greenhouse) are
  1. More rest between harvests (and planting is not THAT much a hassle compared to harvesting, at least on the PC).
  2. Fewer kegs needed.
I still waffle between the two for perpetual fields. But you will always do best with Ancient Fruit outdoors on your farm.
 
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I realized another factor for people might be platform. If playing on mobile with only touch, quick-replanting can't be done as easily, it requires a load of time consuming taps. Having a controller paired fixes that relatively easily though.
 

Elenna101

Farmer
@CryogenCrystals Sorry to hear about the problems you've had! If it helps, other than the sew/sow thing I didn't notice any problems with your spelling/grammar. You're probably right that I should just not correct people unless they ask. Normally I don't, but I figured since your spelling/grammer otherwise seemed fine, it was probably just a knowledge issue where you had those two words mixed up, and I know when that happens to me I prefer for people to tell me.
Anyways, I'll remember not to correct you in the future.
 
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@CryogenCrystals Sorry to hear about the problems you've had! If it helps, other than the sew/sow thing I didn't notice any problems with your spelling/grammar. You're probably right that I should just not correct people unless they ask. Normally I don't, but I figured since your spelling/grammer otherwise seemed fine, it was probably just a knowledge issue where you had those two words mixed up, and I know when that happens to me I prefer for people to tell me.
Anyways, I'll remember not to correct you in the future.
Thanks, yeah, we can't possibly know other's preferences (or unique needs). 🙂

I don't want to be the reason that someone struggling has a meltdown that day because I took liberties and embarrassed them more than their disease already does on its own, or "outed" them (I read rants on this topic fairly consistently in MS and other neuro-related communities). I'm quite sure a lot of folks would also really appreciate the effort to abstain from such, so thanks! You rock!
 

Polaris

Sodbuster
... Still... this all sounds strange to me. I have never got the greenhouse before finding my first ancient seed. Because I always have at least 1 ancient seed and 1 coffee bean by the time I get the greenhouse, my preferred layout is about 20 coffee plants (in order to keep up with my caffeine habit) and the rest in ancient fruit. I usually have 1 of every fruit tree unless that fruit is used in cooking, in which case I will have 2 of that fruit tree... and then I fill in the rest with bananas. This results in 2 apricots, 2 apples, 2 mangos, 1 pomegranate, 1 peach, 1 orange, 1 cherry, 8 bananas.
I'm also now in the category of having the greenhouse without having found an ancient seed. I only have part of it planted so far with repeatables - hops and strawberries so far.
 
I'm also now in the category of having the greenhouse without having found an ancient seed. I only have part of it planted so far with repeatables - hops and strawberries so far.
Hops are more profitable anyway, so that's not a bad thing. Strawberries aren't bad, they'll hold you over until you can get an Ancient Fruit.
 
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