Furthermore, Xianji estimates that M is 450g, which aligns with my experience, and if true, would confirm that your route probably wouldn't work.I really appreciate your putting numbers on it, that helps clarify.
I've never done a pure min-max run for gold that extends into Fall. If I did, I would never do pigs. Here's why.Did you see my other pay, about the pigs? What are your thoughts?
Spring Mountain Lake is nice because it doesn't change over the day at all, unlike most locations/seasons
This gives us the expected value (with the +50% fish value and all iridium/perfect catches) to be (300 * .2013) + (90 * .2225) + (225 * .1810) + (150 * .2225) = 154.515/fish
if you get 2-3 fishes/hour, you'd expect 300g-450g/hour, which is in line with Xianji's estimate
I requested edit access + found some bugs.I think you are missing a lot in your analysis by comparing the months separately rather than together. Please take a look at this spreadsheet. It uses the same assumptions as yours, except that I assume 1.2 truffles per pig -- this is probably a good deal lower than the reality, given that foraging 5 will multiply by 1.2 without any farming or animal friendship contribution. In this case pigs thump starfruit + pumpkins by a bit shy of 200k, but probably by far more, since at the end of fall I can probably sell the pigs to recover 50% or so and either keep the cash or reinvest it in, say, sheep during winter. Do you see any flaws in my reasoning?
What bugs?I requested edit access + found some bugs.
By what point in time can you make 100,000 a day though? The profit on the strawberries isn't huge - about 50,000 profit if you sell them unprocessed - but the time taken for planting and harvesting is less than a day in total. That seems like a reasonable profit. Also the plants just need scything to plant your summer crops, so it saves time later... (those tiles for the starfruit will need digging at some point!) And you enter the summer with farming 10. Which, to be fair, doesn't make much difference for a starfruit strat - you still need deluxe speed gro for three harvests. But you could pick artisan and be able to sell your starfruit wine much earlier.How much profit do you get from two large harvests of strawberries? You can make around 100,000g a day per Skull Cavern run (eventually), so the opportunity cost of running around planting things + harvesting things is huge.
That's correct. I have updated the section in the Min Max Guide to account for the two different time frames + provide a weighted average. Feel free to review these new numbers.Also this fish stuff -- mountain lake definitely changes. You don't get largemouth after I think 7pm.
To clarify, Xianji's value of 450g was an estimate. My value of 620g is an actual calculation based on the real data.And xianji and you, a minute ago, both thought 450. If it's really 620 that's a huge error. It seems to me the prudent thing is to maybe do some testing before committing to any of these numbers.
Indeed you are correct in that you can't make 100,000g a day right out the gate. It does require some "warmup" time - getting the Galaxy Sword, getting combat level 10, getting mining level 10, crafting two Iridium Bands, and most importantly, building up a ton of Crystalariums producing Jade.By what point in time can you make 100,000 a day though?
Indeed, for this analysis we need to assume that we sell them unprocessed, as it would be impossible to build enough Kegs (or Preserves Jars, for that matter) to process them all. We need to remember that a 50,000g profit is a huge boon in Spring, but somewhat useless in Summer. Another way of saying this is that by the time the Strawberries actually pay off, you are already making so much money from the Skull Caverns that 50,000g is a relatively tiny amount.The profit on the strawberries isn't huge - about 50,000 profit if you sell them unprocessed
Ok, if that's true, we could consider the other costs.but the time taken for planting and harvesting is less than a day in total.
Recall that in my route, we use Parsnips as a linger crop, which is so cheap (20g) that at the end of Spring it is practically free.Also the plants just need scything to plant your summer crops, so it saves time later... (those tiles for the starfruit will need digging at some point!)
I'm not sure what you are suggesting here. To be clear, farming level doesn't affect the grow time of crops. It only affects the quality of picked crops, which is irrelevant in Summer, because all 3 quality types (normal, silver, gold) will all go into Kegs. All you "need" is farming level 6 in order to be able to craft Quality Sprinklers (which is why the route buys exactly enough Kale to get level 6).And you enter the summer with farming 10. Which, to be fair, doesn't make much difference for a starfruit strat - you still need deluxe speed gro for three harvests. But you could pick artisan and be able to sell your starfruit wine much earlier.
See the edited spreadsheet.What bugs?
The 50,000g profit from the strawberries is in spring, not summer, though! That's why I'm asking *when* Skull Cavern gets up to high profits... When is the soonest you personally have made more than 50,000g on a skull cavern run? How many times do you manage that in a typical spring? It would cost 192,000g to buy 400 starfruits seeds plus deluxe speed-gro, which your guide suggests as an aim. Divide that by the 12 days of skull cavern diving and it's only 16,000g a day...Indeed, for this analysis we need to assume that we sell them unprocessed, as it would be impossible to build enough Kegs (or Preserves Jars, for that matter) to process them all. We need to remember that a 50,000g profit is a huge boon in Spring, but somewhat useless in Summer. Another way of saying this is that by the time the Strawberries actually pay off, you are already making so much money from the Skull Caverns that 50,000g is a relatively tiny amount.
It definitely is true. And the tiles that I dig for my strawberries are the same tiles I would be digging for my starfruit, so actually that isn't added time on top of your route. This is the 'one to two days to prepare your farm', just earlier in spring - and only one day. The only added time is the harvesting (which is really fast) and the Egg Festival. I agree Egg Festival is a cost, but that is 8 hours plus harvesting time so it's not huge.Ok, if that's true, we could consider the other costs.
Your guide says Spring 17 not Spring 15. Surely the mining is very tight to pay for the bus to be fixed on the 14th if you don't start properly diving until the 11th?1) First and foremost, how much money are you investing into Strawberry Seeds on Spring 13? In my route, you have some money from fishing from Spring 3 --> Spring 11, but you need to save every last penny for unlocking the Vault + buying a level 3 backpack. So, crucially, any money that you invest into Strawberry Seeds would delay unlocking the Skull Caverns. Remember that the first Strawberry harvest does not come until Spring 21, and in my route, you are ideally already starting to farm Skull Cavern by around Spring 15. (So, the profit doesn't help you, it only hurts you.)
You are going to need at least 50 quality sprinklers for your starfruit fields. I never make any normal sprinklers. My route goes straight to quality sprinklers in mid-spring. My strawberries are watered with quality sprinklers from the moment I plant them. From that point on, the only time needed on the farm is two harvests of strawberries, and there is no need to mine gold or iron either - that's all already done.3) In my route, you will have around 22 Sprinklers in order to water around 172 Kale Seeds (in two separate batches). Are you proposing that more sprinklers are built beyond this? Any further time spent farming additional sprinklers is yet another cost that will delay the beginning of the Skull Cavern revenue.
Farming level can affect the grow time of crops if you pick agriculturalist at farming 10. So if you make that choice, anything you plant in summer will be faster. It doesn't change the need for deluxe speed-gro for 3 starfruit harvests, though, so artisan is a better pick, allowing you to sell starfruit wine throughout summer rather than waiting until autumn.I'm not sure what you are suggesting here. To be clear, farming level doesn't affect the grow time of crops. It only affects the quality of picked crops, which is irrelevant in Summer, because all 3 quality types (normal, silver, gold) will all go into Kegs. All you "need" is farming level 6 in order to be able to craft Quality Sprinklers (which is why the route buys exactly enough Kale to get level 6).
Indeed. What I meant to say was, the first Strawberry profit is on Spring 21, and the second is on Spring 25.The 50,000g profit from the strawberries is in spring, not summer, though!
Those are great questions, and I didn't record my last run so I don't have a good answer. I think that it is fair to say that you won't start making 100K per day until some point in Summer at the earliest. But I think it's important to emphasize that any time spent deviating away from the Skull Caverns means that your "100K SC days" will just be pushed even further down the road, losing you total money in the long run.That's why I'm asking *when* Skull Cavern gets up to high profits... When is the soonest you personally have made more than 50,000g on a skull cavern run? How many times do you manage that in a typical spring?
I did mention Parsnips in my previous reply. So you are correct in that in both routes, we both pre-hoe and pre-plant a crop, so that part of it at least should be the same.And the tiles that I dig for my strawberries are the same tiles I would be digging for my starfruit, so actually that isn't added time on top of your route.
From what I know, my guide actually does not actually specify the day. This is because different runs will get to the Skull Caverns in a variable amount of time. The major factors are:Your guide says Spring 17 not Spring 15.
Ok, that's interesting. In my route, it would be impossible to get a lot of Quality Sprinklers by the 13th, because:You are right that the vault will be finished a few days later with my route. Last time I bought 300 strawberry seeds, which left me about 10,000g, then I harvested 200 parsnips on 16th and planted my strawberries that day (apart from the 20 I planted on the night of the Egg Festival on speed gro from the community centre). Those 200 parsnips got me another 10,000 or so gold. With some focused fishing on the 14th, 15th and 17th I think I could have paid for the vault on the 18th... In addition, the farm is already completely prepped for the starfruit planting, which gains a couple of days back later in the season. When I tried this out, I had 60 quality sprinklers crafted and watering the farm by mid-spring, and a lot of tappers up too... In your route, you still have to do that in the future, as well as digging all the tiles for your starfruit, harvesting and replanting kale, buying parsnip seeds from Pierre's, and planting parsnips as a linger crop.
You are going to need at least 50 quality sprinklers for your starfruit fields. I never make any normal sprinklers. My route goes straight to quality sprinklers in mid-spring. My strawberries are watered with quality sprinklers from the moment I plant them. From that point on, the only time needed on the farm is two harvests of strawberries, and there is no need to mine gold or iron either - that's all already done.
Indeed, but the reason we think that re-speccing is optimal is because it gives you an extra day of Skull Cavern revenue, allowing you to buy N more Starfruit Seeds.Farming level can affect the grow time of crops if you pick agriculturalist at farming 10. So if you make that choice, anything you plant in summer will be faster. It doesn't change the need for deluxe speed-gro for 3 starfruit harvests, though, so artisan is a better pick, allowing you to sell starfruit wine throughout summer rather than waiting until autumn.
Yes. That's what makes my route more viable than normal strawberry strategies. It worked surprisingly well - very tight at the start (I had to fish and mine efficiently), but I really was freed up to do whatever I wanted from spring 17th. I chose to mess around talking to villagers rather than continuing to min-max, but I think it would have been possible to do skull cavern runs from 18th or 19th full time apart from two strawberry harvests. Which I think might be competitive with your route.Ok, that's interesting. In my route, it would be impossible to get a lot of Quality Sprinklers by the 13th, because:
1) In my route, your farming is only level 2, so you simply cannot craft them.
2) In my route, you only start doing the mines on Spring 11, so it would be impossible to have enough raw materials to craft more than a handful.
I can see why you think that. The thing is, parsnips are actually a really good crop to invest in early game, because they give such a good profit in a short growth time, and also return very good xp per day. Watering them doesn't gain 500g per hour, but it does make decent money and farming xp - and sometimes it rains :-) I've got quite fast at watering crops by hand. And it saves me the resources you spend on the 22 normal sprinklers, too, so that needs factoring in to the comparison. It wouldn't be competitive if it wasn't worth getting farming 10 before summer, but see below...In your route, it sounds like you are hand-watering 200 Parsnips every single day, which strikes me as an enormous waste of time. Keep in mind the opportunity cost of ~500g per hour while fishing at the Mountain Lake.
That makes sense! By that reasoning, it would be better in my route to pick Agriculturalist at the end of spring when I get farming 10. That would let me plant my starfruit on summer 4th and spend the first three days of summer in skull cavern, not just the first day. If I really can get into skull cavern on 18th or 19th spring, then I think my route should be competitive with yours for skull cavern dive time and amount of starfruit planted. I just need to get good at skull cavern :-)Indeed, but the reason we think that re-speccing is optimal is because it gives you an extra day of Skull Cavern revenue, allowing you to buy N more Starfruit Seeds.
There is little disadvantage to doing this, because you can re-spec before selling any wine, and the price of re-speccing is 10,000g, which is considered trivial.
Well, the mine progression rate will depend on the luck of the day.it is rare for me to manage more than 20 levels in a day.
Yes, but starting mining earlier makes up for it. So I can get to level 90-100 before the Egg Festival, whilst watering my crops, even with rainy days spent fishing. Then upgrade the pickaxe on festival day and the following weekend, whilst I fish a bit more for the vault money. Then finish off the last levels in a day. There is a question-mark about whether I can fit in the gold pickaxe upgrade - if there's a rainy day earlier in spring then it's trivial because I will have already done the copper upgrade at that point. That would also speed up the earlier diving.Well, the mine progression rate will depend on the luck of the day.
But if you can't get at least 30 levels in a day, that sounds really bad.
The marginal difference here (e.g. between Copper/Steel Pickaxe and Gold Pickaxe) could result in 2 entire days (or more?) being lost to just to dicking around in the mines.
As you know, that is a huge cost.
I don't think that you should be fighting Ghosts - that's a huge waste of time. Just ignore them. You don't even have to bother swinging at them; just let them damage you, as you have unlimited healing anyway. The only relevant factor in the mines is how fast you get to the bottom.Otherwise those ghosts on levels 50+ can really slow me down.
In my route, you fight (almost) no enemies in the mines. You just ignore (almost) every enemy and use the Gold Pickaxe to 1-shot every rock, which is much faster.it's whether I get a better weapon from a monster drop or fishing treasure chest, which is completely down to luck