This is not fair

[shepele]

Hi developers! I wanted to tell you that I am quite unhappy with the way you developed the achievement list, since you put two practically impossible achievements, which have nothing to do with the original game, ruining the expectations of those players who want to complete the game. The criteria you selected seems inadequate to me and I think it is a lack of respect for players who love the game and are left with the frustration of not being able to finish it, because of an absurd achievement that has no reason to be. To be more specific I refer to the achievements "Fector's Challenge" and "Prairie King". We hope you will reconsider and change the difficulty of the mini-game or change the achievement requirements (delete them or change them to another goal). We hope there will be a solution for 1.5 or as soon as possible. Thank you very much.

edit.

Suggestion:

-Add an easy mode to the "Journey of the Prairie King" mini-game. This includes: increase initial lives, increase power-up spawn, lower enemy HP,, reduce enemy spawn, increase coin spawn.
With only 3 or 4 hours of practice it will be possible to achieve both.

 

[Lappy]

Personally, I think your expectations don't match the type of game Stardew Valley is. There is a mismatch between the kind of gamer you are and the kind of game SV is.

1. If your goal is to "complete" games, then you're not getting the point of a game like Stardew Valley. Put another way, completing all achievements may be your goal, but that doesn't mean you "complete" the game.

2. I think it isn't fair is for someone to expect to "complete the game" by finishing all the achievements, but not be willing to put in the time and effort to accomplish the difficult ones.

3. I notice that this is your second post, and in the first, dated October 30, you mention being a new player. So, you've been playing what, maybe a month? A month and a half? Two months? And you're already resigning that those achievements are unattainable?

4. To me, the point of having very difficult achievements is for those who do accomplish them to be able to wear them as a badge of honor. If a goal is easily attained, it's not really much of an achievement. If only 1 or 2 percent of players ever achieve a particular goal, attaining it would feel a LOT more special.

IMHO, I would suggest re-evaluating what gaming is to you, and/or what games you should be playing.

Do you really want to be the type to check off every achievement? I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it's definitely not the only way to enjoy a game. There are plenty of games out there with achievements that are incredibly difficult to accomplish, even more so than the ones you mentioned here for SV.

Is Stardew Valley the kind of game where achievements are the primary goal? Again, it's a matter of your play style, but I would argue that the game offers so much more than reaching pre-determined goals. To make that your singular focus takes away so much from the experience.

What can you do instead? Make a farm with a different map type. Make a farm that's heavy on animals and light on crops. See how far down Skull Cavern you can make it without using staircases. Make a new farm and marry a different NPC, and see their 14 heart event. Maybe do that for each available NPC. Set your own goals instead of being limited to the ones that are in the game.

 

[shepele]

Personally, I think your expectations don't match the type of game Stardew Valley is. There is a mismatch between the kind of gamer you are and the kind of game SV is.

1. If your goal is to "complete" games, then you're not getting the point of a game like Stardew Valley. Put another way, completing all achievements may be your goal, but that doesn't mean you "complete" the game.

2. I think it isn't fair is for someone to expect to "complete the game" by finishing all the achievements, but not be willing to put in the time and effort to accomplish the difficult ones.

3. I notice that his is your second post, and in the first, dated October 30, you mention being a new player. So, you've been playing what, maybe a month? A month and a half? Two months? And you're already resigning that those achievements are unattainable?

4. To me, the point of having very difficult achievements is for those who do accomplish them to be able to wear them as a badge of honor. If a goal is easily attained, it's not really much of an achievement. If only 1 or 2 percent of players ever achieve a particular goal, attaining it would feel a LOT more special.

IMHO, I would suggest re-evaluating what gaming is to you, and/or what games you should be playing.

Do you really want to be the type to check off every achievement? I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it's definitely not the only way to enjoy a game. There are plenty of games out there with achievements that are incredibly difficult to accomplish, even more so than the ones you mentioned here for SV.

Is Stardew Valley the kind of game where achievements are the primary goal? Again, it's a matter of your play style, but I would argue that the game offers so much more than reaching pre-determined goals. To make that your singular focus takes away so much from the experience.

What can you do instead? Make a farm with a different map type. Make a farm that's heavy on animals and light on crops. See how far down Skull Cavern you can make it without using staircases. Make a new farm and marry a different NPC, and see their 14 heart event. Maybe do that for each available NPC. Set your own goals instead of being limited to the ones that are in the game.

Hello, I see you don't see my point. You have other goals and not being familiar with video games you won't understand. (I presume because you play on a mobile device). But it's okay, I understand what you're saying. But there is another reality, I am an xbox player and there is a community dedicated to hunting achievements. I think it's disrespectful to our community that you belittle the way we play.

 

[Lappy]

Hello, I see you don't see my point. You have other goals and not being familiar with video games you won't understand. (I presume because you play on a mobile device). But it's okay, I understand what you're saying. But there is another reality, I am an xbox player and there is a community dedicated to hunting achievements. I think it's disrespectful to our community that you belittle the way we play.

You think that because I play Stardew Valley on mobile, I don't play other games on other devices, or understand gaming? Or that because you play SV on an XBox, you have a better understanding of gaming?

I'm not belittling you at all. I even say it's not a bad thing if you want to get every achievement. I do, however, think that the expectation that the designer should change or remove the achievements to make it easier for you to "complete" the game is out of line, and that the title of this thread already sets a bad tone. But hey, CA may feel differently, and that's cool too. It's his game.

You want to hunt for achievements? Go on ahead. No one, including myself, is stopping you. I'm not even discouraging you from doing it. In fact, if that's what you want to do, I encourage you to do so. Completing achievements is a game within a game, and you are choosing to play that game, knowing that some are going to be harder - even a LOT harder - than others. Prairie King, and especially, Fector's Challenge are big game hunts, not for the feint of heart. But you shouldn't expect the designer to change the rules of the game just because of how you want to play it. Instead, if you want to get those achievements, you should put in the time to master JotPK so you can finish them off.

If you're more interested in the game outside the game - hunting for achievements over a wide selection of games, your time will probably be better spent getting achievements in other games. Unless these two achievements (or finishing off SV as a whole) are worth a LOT... which would be commensurate to their difficulty.

Good luck, and happy hunting!

 

[imnvs]

Hello, I see you don't see my point. You have other goals and not being familiar with video games you won't understand. (I presume because you play on a mobile device). But it's okay, I understand what you're saying. But there is another reality, I am an xbox player and there is a community dedicated to hunting achievements. I think it's disrespectful to our community that you belittle the way we play.

This is about the most condescending thing I've ever seen someone post on this forum.

Look, shepele, you're wrong. All of those achievements are attainable. They are fun to attain. If you have a problem with it, I think you have unrealistic expectations. Oh, and your claim to being a platform gamer over a mobile gamer making you superior? I play on PC, and I don't think you want to start a PC vs Platform debate here.

The goals/achievements you have issue with? If they were more easily attainable, it wouldn't feel like an achievement. Don't ask for handouts. Get gud.

 

[shepele]

This is about the most condescending thing I've ever seen someone post on this forum.

Look, shepele, you're wrong. All of those achievements are attainable. They are fun to attain. If you have a problem with it, I think you have unrealistic expectations. Oh, and your claim to being a platform gamer over a mobile gamer making you superior? I play on PC, and I don't think you want to start a PC vs Platform debate here.

The goals/achievements you have issue with? If they were more easily attainable, it wouldn't feel like an achievement. Don't ask for handouts. Get gud.

First of all, I don't care about the device you play with. Second, he judged me by telling me if being there is my kind of game or not and that I will not allow. Thirdly, I'm not debating whether the achievement is difficult or easy, whether it's fun or not. I am arguing that the game is a farm management game, therefore, it is absurd to put an extremely difficult achievement that is not related to the original game. If the achievement was to reach level 300 in the mine without dying, it's extremely difficult and acceptable. Why? Because it is related to the game. Now, the developer put in an extremely difficult achievement for a mini-game that has absolutely nothing to do with the original game. So what's the point? I play for more than 200hs a farm management game with the final goal of completing all the achievements and having it on the list completed (personal goal) and I have to "start" another "game" from scratch in order to complete it. I want to complete stardew valley and play stardew valley, I don't want to play a mini-game that has nothing to do with the game itself. I totally disagree with the way the developer made the list, and it's unfair to those players who want to complete stardew valley, not another game.

 

[shepele]

First of all, I don't care about the device you play with. Second, he judged me by telling me if being there is my kind of game or not and that I will not allow. Thirdly, I'm not debating whether the achievement is difficult or easy, whether it's fun or not. I am arguing that the game is a farm management game, therefore, it is absurd to put an extremely difficult achievement that is not related to the original game. If the achievement was to reach level 300 in the mine without dying, it's extremely difficult and acceptable. Why? Because it is related to the game. Now, the developer put in an extremely difficult achievement for a mini-game that has absolutely nothing to do with the original game. So what's the point? I play for more than 200hs a farm management game with the final goal of completing all the achievements and having it on the list completed (personal goal) and I have to "start" another "game" from scratch in order to complete it. I want to complete stardew valley and play stardew valley, I don't want to play a mini-game that has nothing to do with the game itself. I totally disagree with the way the developer made the list, and it's unfair to those players who want to complete stardew valley, not another game.

Pd: It is not a fact that one is superior to another because of the device it uses. Personally, I don't think there are better players than others. But he is judging me, saying that it is not my kind of game and which one should I play... from a casual gaming platform. That is hypocrisy.

 

[liquidcat]

Hey guys, we should all take a step back for a moment. Tone can usually be lost in text so we should all try to be considerate of that! @shepele I would like to suggest adding more to your first post about your frustrating and what ways you think it can be changed it as it can help others understand it better so others can add more to the suggestion as well!

Let's also try to avoid all debate over platform as well because it will do us all no good!

 

[liquidcat]

As a completionist myself Fector's challenge has always been the hardest one for me to get as well! I do think the game can be made easier if CA wants it to be, but it makes sense in the context that it is an arcade machine which are notoriously difficult. I think minor touch to the achievement would be appreciated! But I have came to terms that I sadly won't ever be getting it and find it to be fine in its current state.

 

[shepele]

As a completionist myself Fector's challenge has always been the hardest one for me to get as well! I do think the game can be made easier if CA wants it to be, but it makes sense in the context that it is an arcade machine which are notoriously difficult. I think minor touch to the achievement would be appreciated! But I have came to terms that I sadly won't ever be getting it and find it to be fine in its current state.

Well, at least you see my point. Of course, the developer, if he wants to, can make the achievements easier. Maybe I don't explain myself well and generate confusion, but this would be my suggestion:

-Add an easy mode to the "Journey of the Prairie King" mini-game. This includes: increase initial lives, increase power-up spawn, lower enemy HP,, reduce enemy spawn, increase coin spawn.
With only 3 or 4 hours of practice it will be possible to achieve both.

The person who enjoys this mini-game can play it in normal or difficult, it doesn't matter. But add this option for those who do not want to spend 200 hours trying to get an impossible achievement that has nothing to do with the game.

I will update the original post by adding the suggestion.

 

[Uzzlegorf]

I see myself as a completionest. I never even try that one.
I don't like the JotPK and Junimo Kart games, and I don't play them outside of Abigail's events.
I'm a completionist, not a masochist.

 

[Yanni Ava]

In my opinion, I agree with some of the points Shepele makes, as these two achievements have absolutely nothing to do with the essence of the game. While the achievements have to be challenging, I would have liked the challenge to have been about the history of the game, and not about a mini-game that was absolutely separate from everything that was learned throughout SV. On the other hand, the most frustrating thing of all, is that it's not even an achievement you can achieve with a lot of practice, or investing a lot of time, because it's simply a matter of chance. I've been trying to find a pattern, a way to get through it, and it's totally random. There is no learning curve, in which you can go through it until you achieve it. It's just random. Few enemies can come out, as many can come out at once, and bye-bye. From my point of view, I believe that every style of game must be respected, and there are players who enjoy hunting achievements, which does not mean that they do not value the game as such, but simply that they impose their personal goals alongside the entertainment of the game, therefore it could have been done, from these two achievements, something more obtainable, at least following a pattern, or with a good technique learned from the practice of the mini-game, and not leave it so free to chance. I am particularly frustrated also with these two achievements that are the last ones that I lack, and personally I like to complete the games, when they caught me too much, that is, if a game I like very much, after finishing the whole story, and doing everything that I play can give me, I dedicate myself to complete the achievements, therefore, it is a great frustration to find myself in these two achievements, that to my point of view, are almost unobtainable. I hope this appreciation can be considered, which is without any offense to the developers, who did a fantastic job with SV.

 

[imnvs]

these two achievements have absolutely nothing to do with the essence of the game.

Why must every achievement "have to do with the essence of the game"? Lots of games have ridiculous achievements that have nothing to do with how people are intended to play the game. Link: https://www.redbull.com/za-en/silly-gaming-achievements

As for JotPK, I don't think it's that hard. It's like a lot of really old-school games (think Galaga, Space Invaders, Asteroid), and I disagree with your premise that you can't get better with practice. It's not about learning a pattern. It's about learning the controls well enough that they become second nature so you can adapt and react appropriately to the wacky random waves of badddies coming at you. Now, yes, Fector's Challenge is difficult, like really difficult. I still don't think that making it easier is the solution. Would you say the same to Activision/Blizzard or Sony or Microsoft about one of their games, and do you really think that making an "easy mode" just so some people who couldn't beat a game on normal difficulty could get an achievement is a thing they'd consider?

 

[Meteora]

This is about the most condescending thing I've ever seen someone post on this forum.

Look, shepele, you're wrong. All of those achievements are attainable. They are fun to attain. If you have a problem with it, I think you have unrealistic expectations. Oh, and your claim to being a platform gamer over a mobile gamer making you superior? I play on PC, and I don't think you want to start a PC vs Platform debate here.

The goals/achievements you have issue with? If they were more easily attainable, it wouldn't feel like an achievement. Don't ask for handouts. Get gud.

I thought I’d never agree with this guy but I do....... crazy world crazy year

 

[Yanni Ava]

It's like a lot of really old-school games (think Galaga, Space Invaders, Asteroid)

If I wanted to play those kind of "old school" games I would just play them, the point is that I didn't look for that in SV. It's not my style of playing this mini game, and it's not what SV stands for. Still, as an achievement hunter, I feel pressured to at least try, with the frustration of playing something that is not to my liking, and is extremely difficult and practically impossible.

And as for me not telling this to other developers, like those from Sony or Microsoft, you're wrong. Of course I would tell them, because it is MY OPINION, and nobody can tell me that I am not fit to broadcast it.

I think that many here have difficulty accepting opinions that do not coincide with their own.

 

[ConcernedApe]

I understand that Fector's Challenge is very controversial, and many people are frustrated by it. I knew it was very difficult when I put it in the game, that's why I made it a "hidden achievement". I have some regrets with the difficulty of it, but at the same time, part of the idea is that we can't all expect to achieve 100% of everything we want to, and it's okay to accept that and make peace with it. Another thing, is if I made it easier now, it would be unfair to the people who successfully unlocked that achievement in the past 4 years.

I am open to small improvements to Prairie King to make it more manageable. One example... in the new update we're making it so that you can save & continue Prairie King, so you can take a break and continue later (and also so that you can actually beat it in a multiplayer game where time continues during play)

 

[Quillmagic]

I understand that Fector's Challenge is very controversial, and many people are frustrated by it. I knew it was very difficult when I put it in the game, that's why I made it a "hidden achievement". I have some regrets with the difficulty of it, but at the same time, part of the idea is that we can't all expect to achieve 100% of everything we want to, and it's okay to accept that and make peace with it. Another thing, is if I made it easier now, it would be unfair to the people who successfully unlocked that achievement in the past 4 years.

I am open to small improvements to Prairie King to make it more manageable. One example... in the new update we're making it so that you can save & continue Prairie King, so you can take a break and continue later (and also so that you can actually beat it in a multiplayer game where time continues during play)

@ConcernedApe that sounds amazing! Thank you, I might finally have a chance at beating JotPK!

 

[imnvs]

And as for me not telling this to other developers, like those from Sony or Microsoft, you're wrong. Of course I would tell them, because it is MY OPINION, and nobody can tell me that I am not fit to broadcast it.

Do you really think they would make these changes just because you asked?

Look, you're acting like I'm telling you what you can and can't say. Cut it out. Everyone knows that's not what I'm doing. I'm telling you to manage your expectations and you keep replying with, essentially, "No."

Okay. Be salty. No skin off my back.

 

[liquidcat]

Hey guys, @Yanni Ava @imnvs please take a step back as it's starting to derail the convo now! Let's all try to be respectful to each other.

 

[Yanni Ava]

Hey guys, @Yanni Ava @imnvs please take a step back as it's starting to derail the convo now! Let's all try to be respectful to each other.

I have not disrespected anyone, I just gave my opinion, but it seems that @imnvs is not able to accept it and that's it. I didn't expect so much controversy for a simple opinion, since I wasn't even the one who asked to eliminate the achievement, or make it easier, in fact I agree that this would be unfair to those who did manage to obtain it. Surely this person interpreted that by saying that hopefully my appreciation would be considered, I was referring to this, but no. In short, I am ending my participation in this topic, which in the end does not change my life at all. Goodbye.