Rant about the needed wiki

[dundalol]

Since I started the game I had to heavily rely on the wiki. The game gives very little info, VERY little. It sometimes gives it on the TV, sometimes randomly by the villagers, etc. But not nearly enough. There is no way to know where fish are if you dont check the wiki... The daily trader stock, just check the wiki every goddamn day to see if they sell what you want...

I have been very annoyed about this, but still... I kept playing.

I finally got to ginger island and its everything wrong on steroids. the 130 golden walnuts, on sites hidden away that you wouldnt know unless you looked at guides. I just havent started the game in a week just because of this, its so goddamn stressful. Ah, and also because I need a goddamn garlic and need to wait 3 whole seasons for it...

And thank god I dont care about the special furniture...

 

[Ereo]

The game does tell you where to get all the fish. in a TV channel you get after a certain quest.

I think most of the information is there, it's just too much, and pretty well hidden.

Plus, I've noticed I lost the ability to figure out things on my own. Ten years ago I used to play games without looking stuff up, but now, if I can't figure things out in a minute, I'll start googling.

 

[CryogenCrystals]

I have to admit the menus and information design leaves a bit to be desired, though I'll neutral-language my wishes for improvement. I wish that there was more of an interactive way of dealing with the library book tips, Living off the Land tips, fishing tips/learning, and secret notes etc. I'm thinking almost like a player bulletin of sorts, that houses all of these things in a single tab even (having different tappable areas, like book excerpts pinned, secret notes pinned, letters etc) and they lets you piece together/arrange clues to things and/or relate it to spots on the Stardew map in the player's menu, or each having a tappable area that highlights a bit in the map. There really is a lot of disparate information. Aside from that just in a basic usability and consistency sense, I find the menus that archive the information provided, to be a bit weak in design.

Examples:

1. Secrets. Having to tap on every secret note, to find their numbers and read their text, is silly. They could scroll in the right panel since they are all short. And, instead of tapping blindly on a note on the left, have the left panel display like the letter's left panel does, with note icon, note number, and short title all on the left; on the right display the note text. If there's an image in the note, provide a preview on the left icon. Allow secrets to be marked as done when complete, either manually and automatically when associated secrets are found. Use a title like "Abigail's Diary" for the text that says: "It's a page from Abigail's diary, 'things I love...'". If a secret is related to a character, have that character's icon on the note icon image. Clicking through all notes to find the one not yet found, is an inconvenience, every time.

2. Letters. There's a listing of letters and letter titles on the left panel, and a blank right panel???? Why? Why do I need to tap (only the envelope, since tapping the text listing beside the envelope in the left panel inexplicably does nothing) to get a message text pop up (why make it an extra pop up with an empty right panel when all other things actually use the panel?!?)? Why are very similar panels handled differently between tabs? Sadly, letters are not indexed on the wiki, or if they are, they are located on disparate pages with no single listing to browse though, on the only page that seems to have a section specifically about "Letters".

3. Library/museum books. How are users supposed to re-review book tips? At least the wiki has these indexed. A way to at least re-review these in the library would be nice, since it is a library/museum.

4. Fish. Once a library or letter "tip" has been found, or type of fish already caught, the information about that fish its rather/season etc imo should now appear in its collection listing in the player's menu along with its name. Ideally this should apply even for uncaught fish, where tapping its grayed out shape should now at least now provide the name you got in the tip, as well as catch location/season/weather or whatever else was in the note/tip. All fish should have tips on catching, eventually. The Fishing Information Broadcast Service is only available on 1.5 and only gives fish for the current season, which doesn't allow for planning ahead. Unclear if it also gives fish that are season- and weather-independent, since I don't have access to 1.5 and there is barely any information about it on the wiki at all (searched for a page for this, couldn't find it).

5. Living off the Land show. How are users supposed to re-review the tips provided in the Living off the Land show aside from viewing again only when its day rolls around? This is another thing that can easily be indexed in the player menu rather than having to rely on the wiki. Put a TV set picture or TV guide on the "player bulletin board" that is tappable, have already gotten tips there, and show the slots for missed ones and which days were missed! Oh, and what about a rerun schedule mention?

6. Characters. Anything learned about a character (a list speech interactions would be nice, though less pressing), if gifts/tips/notes especially showed up on their one page (other things scroll, there's no reason why gift preferences can't, frankly it makes no sense that they are instead broken up into 10 different, unnecessary pages!). Then, if fixed the left and right arrows can be used to move between characters as expected, without having to close the dialog and re-scroll/re-open repeatedly. Also, that way we dont have to move between 10 pages with barely anything on each of them too! Why do we need 10 pages for 3 rows of tiny boxes max on each of these?:

• Pam's favorites
• Fruits & Vegetables
• Animal Produce
• Artisan Items
• Cooked Items
• Flowers & Foraged items
• Fish
• Ingredients
• Metals, Minerals & Gems
• Misc

Don't get me wrong this is an awesome game, but the information design of the player's menus just aren't really fully realized. A redesign of these could easily account for all the info, there are plenty of more complicated games that archive/track far more info. I think this was intended, it was clearly started with player likes, it likely just didn’t get finished, I'd hazard a guess.

 

[hexnessie]

My biggest (or only) gripe was that the game doesn't give you much option to discover all the things you mention for yourself.

Because of Grandpa's approval event happening so early, you are left with a sense of failure if you play without ever checking the wiki. You have no time, in 8 game-months, to find out the fun way about all the things the game has to offer: who likes what, which gifts are liked best by whom, where the fish are, where to go to forage, what to plant for profit, what to cook, how to explore...

I wish the approval event only happened after you reach a threshold (light all the torches). Then you could take it as slow as you liked, and spend 4 years living on a run-down farm learning to fish and forage and giving people random gifts to note what the hated.

 

[450735]

For number 3, you actually can re-read the books whenever you wish, by clicking on the bookshelves, although it's a bit harder to find said books since there's no icon other than a hand cursor that lits up on clickable tiles.

 

[imnvs]

I wish the approval event only happened after you reach a threshold (light all the torches). Then you could take it as slow as you liked, and spend 4 years living on a run-down farm learning to fish and forage and giving people random gifts to note what the hated.

You can have the approval event any day you wish, after the first approval event. Just put a diamond in the shrine. You actually can take it as slow as you would like and still get all the benefits. Sure, you have to pay that additional diamond, but by the time you can get the 4 torch evaluation, one diamond isn't that expensive...

...and I feel like you have a larger expectation for what is required than is actually required. You only need 12 of 21 available points to get the 4 torch evaluation. Having made 1 million cash, alone, gets you 7 points. Pet your pet every day, because you're not a monster, and you'll have 1 more point before 1 year is done (when you get the message that your pet loves you), let alone 2. Now, just make sure sure to have at least 30 levels total between your 5 skills (an average of 6), and that's another 1 point. Have 8 hearts with just 5 people is another point. Get married (which counts as a person at 8 hearts, fyi) and have 2 house upgrades (so that children are possible, though children are not necessary) gets another point. Get to the bottom of the mines and get the skull key and that's another point. That's 12 points, and it doesn't require you get anywhere NEAR perfection as Qi understands it out on Ginger Island, so you don't need to learn the favorites of everyone... just pick 5 and learn those people, get married to one of them and get to the bottom of the mines and that's probably all you really have to work for to get a 4 torch evaluation by the time Grandpa shows up. Can't make 1 million by then? Okay, maybe you'll have to make 5 more friends, max your skills or also get the rusty key instead of that last point so long as you can make 500k. Only made 250k? Okay, two of those things. (There's also master angler, full shipment and complete collection that are worth a point, but those are more work. OR the Community Center which is worth 3 points all by itself too, but I know some find that a lot more difficult than others do.)

So yeah, I think it's easily doable by most players... but no new player knows, without checking the wiki or delving into the code or finding out about it on the forum here, what to shoot for or even that the evaluation is coming in the first place. In your first play through, you're probably flailing about until you get there and you're like, "Wait. WTF? What's this ghost magic???" On subsequent playthroughs you'll probably do a lot better, and even then, you probably could do it without checking the wiki so long as you knew just the few basic things for which you'd be shooting to get a good score.

I'm not sure that when you qualify for 4 torches it should trigger the evaluation, though. See, I've usually got a 4 torch evaluation locked down in Spring of Year 2 if not earlier. I would get the statue WAY earlier and get myself into the world of free iridium WAY sooner than anyone can now. And also, what's the point of there even being a 1, 2 or 3 torch evaluation at all at that point? Since you can redo the evaluation whenever you'd like, I think it's fine as is... because that sets an "earliest date" that you can get the statue, and if you don't get it then, you can go back and get it whenever.

Edit to add: Idea! Perhaps you get a notification whenever you gain a point and thus qualify for a higher-number evaluation than previously? That would teach people what things they can do to get a better evaluation (because what they did just got them a torch, right), and also inform people much earlier on that there is an evaluation. Eventually you would also know to go back after you get the fourth notification signifying the fourth torch too. Experience building on experience. I kinda like it.

Also edit to add: The 1 million assumption? That's by end of year 2. That is not how I lock down my 4 torch evaluation by latest Spring of Year 2. That's by getting the rusty key and/or making more friends. I mean, it takes a few seasons for the ancient fruit to kick in, and I did only got the Greenhouse in mid-Fall.

 

[Elenna101]

FWIW, I did find all but 5ish of the golden walnuts without looking them up. Took a while and I definitely understand why you wouldn't want to spend time/mental energy doing that, but the parrot's hints did help a fair amount.

I do agree that better organization of the info you get would be nice (IMO it should include some way to track how much things sell for, even if it only shows things you've already sold once).

Also I wish there was a better way to get information on loved gifts in-game - even if you have the resources to try everything, you can only try two things a week, and the times when villagers tell you what other villagers like definitely don't happen often enough to get a good picture of what everyone likes without the wiki. The secret notes help a little, but only for some villagers. Maybe some mechanic where loved gifts are revealed as you get their friendship up?
I think that and artifact locations are the main thing where there's absolutely no reasonable way to find out without the wiki - and I guess minerals but at least with those you can just keep trying omni geodes. For trader stuff that changes daily you can at least check every day of the week and remember/write down what they sell, although now that you mention it, it would be nice if traders somehow showed what they could sell on other days.

 

[dundalol]

CryogenCrystals
I agree and thought of that too. I caught a fish, just say "mountain lake 6am - 7 pm" when hovering in their icon in the collection. Same with crops, the info that is in the seeds could be in their icons in the collections "grows in summer, takes 5 days to grow".
I also agree with the gifts tab. They all fit in one page, but we have several pages, omg... And basically agree with everything else too, just wanted to point these two.

I also agree with most of that the other users have said. In fact, for all that Im complaining it also feels underwhelming what you need to get "100%" with grandpa... My two main complains is the way of the info is given to the player, and also the fact that if you forget/miss something in one season you have to wait a whole year.

 

[FlyingCatPhillips]

Also I wish there was a better way to get information on loved gifts in-game - even if you have the resources to try everything, you can only try two things a week, and the times when villagers tell you what other villagers like definitely don't happen often enough to get a good picture of what everyone likes without the wiki.

This reminds me of a mechanic is Light of Hope, where Witchy will tell you who likes/dislikes what and it shows up on the page. It's an awesome mechanic! So when people tell you is an NPC hates/ loves something does that show up on there page? I really have not checked after someone tells me these things. I just jumped into a game save file from 2-ish years ago and it's all messed up, lol

 

[Elenna101]

Ah, and also because I need a goddamn garlic and need to wait 3 whole seasons for it...

Oh yeah, if you open the door that asks you to find 100 walnuts, one of the things you can find behind it is something that will help with this (you can get a thing that lets you buy seeds out of season). Although I guess that's kinda circular since you want the garlic in order to get walnuts.

The easier way, if you saved a garlic, is to put a garlic in a seed maker and get garlic seeds (you can plant them on the island in any season, in case you hadn't realized that). If you haven't saved a garlic, try the travelling cart and maybe you'll get lucky?

This reminds me of a mechanic is Light of Hope, where Witchy will tell you who likes/dislikes what and it shows up on the page. It's an awesome mechanic! So when people tell you is an NPC hates/ loves something does that show up on there page? I really have not checked after someone tells me these things. I just jumped into a game save file from 2-ish years ago and it's all messed up, lol

Yeah it does show up when you get told what someone likes.

 

[Salty1]

This might just be me, but I feel like a first playthrough is best enjoyed with no guide whatsoever. It's okay - let yourself make mistakes and do screwy, nonsensical things based on your perception of the game rather than any validated information. My first playthrough was guideless and great, and allowed me to really explore and learn the world on my own. It was also definitely imperfect (like only using the eight tiles immediately surrounding my scarecrows, fencing in absolutely everything, going forester/lumberjack when it was still version 1.2, etc), but that's part of what made it fun. Now the only way to recapture that is to create ridiculous challenges that bind and restrict me in new ways... kind of wish there was a way to hard-reset my brain so I could re-experience the first playthrough again.

 

[Polaris]

I find this thread interesting as I was thinking I wanted to post kudos to whomever did the wiki. It's by far the best wiki I've ever seen for a game, and is on par with wikipedia.

Having said that, I hear what OP and the others have said - it should be in game whenever possible. But that means finding a UI/UX person, which may not be CA's specialty. Until such a feature is completely integrated with the game, kudos to the folks who did the wiki!

 

[Lew Zealand]

... kind of wish there was a way to hard-reset my brain so I could re-experience the first playthrough again.

Yes. Except I might not do anything productive for a few years.

IRL, I mean. In-game, that's just my standard play style.

 

[Odin]

3. Library/museum books. How are users supposed to re-review book tips? At least the wiki has these indexed. A way to at least re-review these in the library would be nice, since it is a library/museum.

I believe this is possible to do, but there's not visual indication that you can do so, and no way to see which book is where.

 

[CryogenCrystals]

I believe this is possible to do, but there's not visual indication that you can do so, and no way to see which book is where.

Huh, that's good to know, thanks Odin! If there is visual indication, a large number of users aren't going to know or especially be tapping on stuff they've already thoroughly explored as having no functionality prior. And, not knowing locations or being able to tell which is where is also problematic. It is problematic in the way that secret notes are problematic... having to tap every single one to find the one you're after. It is a usability issue, but not a critical one. Something like that would likely rank as "annoyance" or "inconvenience" in usability heuristics eval.

 

[Lew Zealand]

Huh, that's good to know, thanks Odin! If there is visual indication, a large number of users aren't going to know or especially be tapping on stuff they've already thoroughly explored as having no functionality prior. And, not knowing locations or being able to tell which is where is also problematic. It is problematic in the way that secret notes are problematic... having to tap every single one to find the one you're after. It is a usability issue, but not a critical one. Something like that would likely rank as "annoyance" or "inconvenience" in usability heuristics eval.

Yes, I found out about this purely by accident as I'm clumsy when clicking on stuff like trying to give Elliot Quartz when it's supposed to be eaten by Jaws'* daughter, Abigail. There are no indications where any of the books are filed but if you've found them, then you can read them later should you have the patience for a scavenger hunt.





* this Jaws, silly!

 

[CryogenCrystals]

Yep, that's so it... patience is the thing it requires to go on a tapping/reading goose chase for the one book excerpt you want to read.

 

[Odin]

There are no indications where any of the books are filed but if you've found them, then you can read them later should you have the patience for a scavenger hunt.

Yep, that's so it... patience is the thing it requires to go on a tapping/reading goose chase for the one book excerpt you want to read.

Haha yeah, that system could definitely use some more UI.

 

[CryogenCrystals]

Also, if we're giving feedback for UI and reducing reliance on wiki, please add the name of dishes/cooking items below the image for Trash Bear requests. I constantly see "what food is this" posts on Reddit and elsewhere, either because people can't see what they need to easily on the wiki, they don't want to go to the wiki, they don't know about the wiki, or perhaps too lazy to look on the wiki (or some combination). Trying to match it up in-game without the dish name, the wiki, and a limited number of pixels is also a drag. Having to leave the game on mobile, because it takes up the full screen, to go look on the wiki is also a drag. Being able to play without taking photos/screenshots for other platforms would be kind of nice. Adding the dish name helps players stay in the game = less distraction.