In Defense of Penny

FilthyGorilla

Local Legend
Much of the discussion around Penny seems to revolve around ignorance vs. intent with her 2 :heart: event with George. Yes, Penny's actions are ableist but it doesn't seem that she does it because she looks down at George. Instead she does it with the intent of trying to help, but she's ignorant of the fact that some people would much prefer to do things themselves even if their life situation makes those things considerably more difficult. Seeing as this is a game, which is specifically scripted and not a real-time IRL interaction, I wish that Penny and George had a more in-depth discussion of ableism and how to first talk with someone who may be having difficulty instead of just diving into action. There is an opportunity for understanding which should be explored, especially since George clearly has the capacity to adjust his opinions on Alex and a male farmer getting married. He should be able to explain the nuances of his life situation to Penny so both of them can grow into more completely realized people.
Absolutely, I do think the point brought up in the original post was pretty true and the judgement cast on Penny because of that is largely unwarranted, though I similarly think that the hate she gets for it isn't necessarily real or true to the mentioned extent either.

I think both perspectives from the characters that we see through the game are pretty valuable insights into the ways the character changes, while we aren't really privy to the more nuanced interactions that cutscenes show us in our everyday lives with the villagers, you can absolutely assume permanent lessons were learned and each party has some better understanding of the other. Saying Penny doesn't have character growth is perhaps hiding the genuine few changes in her actions that we do get a glimpse of, even if quite brief.

Ah, that 2 heart event. It is Penny's, isn't it? It's something where they both come away with a lesson learned: Penny, that you don't just take over for people, and George, that there is a difference between an act of Naivete and Malice. My PC's have tended toward correcting Penny without being a jerk.
This 100%, you do get an understanding in the shifts of treatment of each to the other and as general wisdom. It's a shame it's a bit unreasonable because I would love to see cutscenes with the villagers in similar everyday situations where we can see their reflections on their actions and their changes in behaviour with higher hearts.
 

FilthyGorilla

Local Legend
Perhaps Penny's absent father was a casualty of the war that Kent returns from in Year 2?
It's a good possibility, we really don't know the extent of the war in scale nor time. Kent is the only one we hear much about from the war and he's a fair bit older when there are a lot of youth in the town which may indicate drafting was years ago or just hasn't been prevalent in the more secluded areas of the ferngill republic for a while.
 

Ereo

Helper
Penny said:
When I was a little girl, my
father abandoned us because he said he felt 'trapped'. We haven't seen him since. I'm sorry to make things uncomfortable for you... It's just that this time of year makes me think of it for some reason. Anyway... How's the farming life going?
that doesn’t sound like he was going to war (although this might just be what Pam told her, maybe Penny was too little to remember herself).

And as for Pam’s job as a bus driver, Penny tells you it’s been years since the bus broke. The bus from the city must be an other line.
 
I'm surprised no one here mentioned it here yet, but my biggest reason for disliking Penny (not hate, I like her as a realistically written character but dislike her as a person) is how overly sensitive she is, to the point she needs to be coddled at times. The George cutscene is the biggest offender to me. As people said here, she has good intentions. However, I disagree that this gives her a pass. A lot of ableism is not maliciously intended, but it doesn't make it any less bad or harmful. Road to hell is paved with good intentions, you know (and I am myself disabled, I'd be also mad to be coddled like this or in other ways). It means the person needs to be more aware of their actions and learn to be better. Yet what happens if you tell her that she shouldn't have pushed George away in a constructive an not mean way? Your friendship drops a pretty dang big amount. Instead, you have to tell her George is in the wrong for getting upset, and sure, he is generally grumpy, but he has every right to be upset in this instance. He apologizes to her either way too, while Penny keeps thinking she's in the right no matter what you say, and finishes the event off by commenting that "it must be difficult getting old", which also comes across as condescending. Combined with her pushing George and not apologizing or admitting she was in the wrong paints a pretty bad picture.

This mixes with how she doesn't have a character arc, as people here say. She doesn't have to be a completely different person at the end, like Hailey. But that's the frustrating part, Hailey admits she wasn't a good person and gets better, and I don't even like Hailey either. Penny, on the other hand, has this glaring red flag, and doesn't make any effort to even recognize she might have it and be in the wrong. Which, for a person who's supposed to be very kind and nice, spoils the whole impression of her (to me, personally), and makes her come across as fake. Sure, it's one flaw. But Penny herself drops your friendship with you by a whooping 1500 if you say you don't like kids, so it seems to be a big deal breaker for her. Why can't I have a big deal breaker over a trait Penny has?
 

Kumbao

Sodbuster
The criticisms of Penny after marriage are tougher for me as I married her in my first save thanks to Dandelions and her reading under the Tree in town. So I don't think I've even played that save since v1.4 and thus not seen any new dialog, but she was not the most inspiring spouse. However she kept her job an seemed to enjoy cooking, which also argues towards her being content and if I remember, she still sees Pam once a week which I like. I should play that save again for a season to get a handle on her current personality as Abby, Haley, and Emily have been a little more fun, but also more recent, being played in v1.5 and later.
I marry her in practically all of my games. I dont think that much has changed. She was already fine. She stays largely independent, which I always prefer. Yet she still shows affection towards the farmer.

When it comes to the "hatred". As far as I know it started with a famous Youtuber, who disliked her. After that, the community started parotting that.
 

Kumbao

Sodbuster
I'm surprised no one here mentioned it here yet, but my biggest reason for disliking Penny (not hate, I like her as a realistically written character but dislike her as a person) is how overly sensitive she is, to the point she needs to be coddled at times.
No one mentioned it, because its not true.

Why can't I have a big deal breaker over a trait Penny has?
You have. What else do you want? Numbers to reflect that?
 
No one mentioned it, because its not true.



You have. What else do you want? Numbers to reflect that?
And how is it not true? I mentioned examples from the game as proof and as reasons for why I don't like her much. Are you saying I made the whole thing up?

I don't want anything, and I'm not sure what numbers you're even talking about. I don't like Penny and that's my business. You love her and that's your business. You spoke your mind, I spoke mine. That's what a discussion is.
 

Kumbao

Sodbuster
And how is it not true? I mentioned examples from the game as proof and as reasons for why I don't like her much. Are you saying I made the whole thing up?
Yes.

I don't want anything, and I'm not sure what numbers you're even talking about. I don't like Penny and that's my business. You love her and that's your business. You spoke your mind, I spoke mine. That's what a discussion is.
Exactly. Dont know why you get all weird about it.

As for the numbers: since you dislike her, you avoid her. What more do you want? Her behaviour is a deal breaker for you, thats fine. You reflect that by acting accordingly. Again, what more do you want?
 
Yes.



Exactly. Dont know why you get all weird about it.

As for the numbers: since you dislike her, you avoid her. What more do you want? Her behaviour is a deal breaker for you, thats fine. You reflect that by acting accordingly. Again, what more do you want?
Again, nothing. This is a discussion post, I'm discussing. Am I not allowed to?
 

JuminoDreamer

Farmhand
I like Penny. Its just that she kind of stays the same. Her heart events are a little plan. If you judge Penny's heart events and Haley's heart events, Haley has the better ones. Over all she just is a little boring, but is great if you want to have a nice wife.
 

stardew_luv

Farmer
Here's the thing with Penny. You're not wrong about any of those things. She is a genuinely good person. But... she's also got a couple of red flags.

First and foremost, she's desperate to get out of her current living conditions. Her mother is an abusive alcoholic, so you can't really blame her for it, but she's wanting to jump ship to anyone willing to get her out of there. Which makes me wonder if she's interested in the Farmer as a person, or interested in the Farmer as a means of escape. She also seems to have some very codependent tendencies based on her father leaving and generally being neglected by her mother, leading to a high emotional maintenance. At least she's not high cost maintenance like Hailey is.

And that's what I like about Stardew Valley, nobody's perfect and everyone comes with baggage. Abigail still acts like a rebellious teen, Maru is more concerned with her projects than any partner she might end up with... and that's good writing. Because nobody's perfect. The characters are more than just cardboard cutouts with tropes applied, they're actual fleshed out characters, flaws and all.
Really everyone is desperate to marry the farmer or get out of the valley in general but will settle for the farmer as they are the newest addition in to Stardew valley since they got sucked into its land of no return. Penny does have added emotional needs, but they are all depressed once they get stuck as a housewife/househusband day after day. They end up staring at statues or lights all day every day they aren’t visiting family or on ginger island. But that’s better than what they had before…right?

I don’t like the scene with George, but we all make mistakes. Her intentions were good, she just messed up. She’s very generous being the only adult in the whole valley willing to tutor the only children in the place so remote it doesn’t even have a formal public school. She also takes them to the playground and occasionally ginger island in between school days so they don’t have to wait for auntie Marnie to stop staring at the microwave or auntie or uncle to get home from the bar, or hear their mom freak out about more messes to clean or dirty hands from digging in the dirt looking for bugs. She also goes through abuse emotional (and likely physical) beyond belief and has likely PTSD nightmares and flashbacks of her father that are even worse. So even though she appears weak, she is incredibly strong. She doesn’t even have a counselor to work through her issues with, she’s doing it all on her own. I’m a fan of hers. I’m straight so I wouldn’t marry her but I would have her as a roommate like Krobus while she waits for Sam to work up the courage’s to ask her to marry him. 😉😋
 
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Really everyone is desperate to marry the farmer or get out of the valley in general but will settle for the farmer as they are the newest addition in to Stardew valley since they got sucked into its land of no return. Penny does have added emotional needs, but they are all depressed once they get stuck as a housewife/househusband day after day. They end up staring at statues or lights all day every day they aren’t visiting family or on ginger island. But that’s better than what they had before…right?
Sorry, but no.

Maru is, so far as I can tell, Ace. She expresses no romantic interests in the Farmer, and has no need or desire to leave her current residence or the valley as her father is supportive of her scientific endeavors. Even at ten hearts, the best the Farmer can manage is 'lab assistant' or 'project partner'. She has a valuable job as a Nurse at the local clinic, she has personal fulfillment in her projects, she has the loving support of her family. She is not 'desperate' for anything.

Emily isn't 'desperate' for anything. She's living her life, quite content with what she has. Sure, she marches to the beat of a different drum, but in a world in which magic and spirits definitively exist, who's to say she's not closer to the truth than the majority of citizens? She's got so much zen going on that she's genuinely comfortable with her life. She accepts the Farmer's interests if they are expressed, and decides to include the farmer in her life for herself. However, as we can see from her non-reaction to Clint, she's also certainly not eager to jump at the first chance she gets. It's a surprisingly healthy mental attitude, really.

Hailey is desperate for attention, not escape. Her parents effectively abandoned her, the only person who hasn't is her sister. So she builds herself up as something of value so that she won't be discarded again. Which isn't a very healthy mental image, viewing yourself as an object of value instead of a person, but one that is all too common. Hailey is one of the few romantic candidates who actually has character development through the relationship plot. She realizes that she is a person and has self-worth, and realizes she doesn't have to keep up the princess facade. Which is a much healthier mindset to approach a relationship from.

Leah is not 'desperate' for anything either. She likes her current life. She is free of her controlling and manipulative ex, free to roam the valley, free to create art and express herself. One of the things I like about her plotline is that you the farmer *help* her without *taking over* for her. You support her in her endeavors, but they are *her* endeavors, not yours. She respects that, and a genuine friendship blooms before romance does. You can step back and let *her* deal with her ex, you don't have to come to her rescue, she's quite capable of doing so herself, thank you very much. And it is from that position of internal strength that she decides that the Farmer is someone she wants to get to know better.

Abigail is desperate to get away from her father. Not because of abuse, although he is rather neglectful, but out of a childish rebellion befitting a young teen, not a twentysomething. She acts like a kid, and he treats her like one. This is not a healthy dynamic for either of them. However, much as she claims to yearn for adventure, what she actually wants is her idealized dream of adventure, which mostly boils down to 'being away from her father'. As seen in her ten heart event, actual adventure terrifies her. Her mother at least cares for her, and helps her as best she can. Her father is too busy running his business to recognize what is going on, a common failing in sole proprietorships. Honestly, she's almost as much a brat as Hailey, but without the character development arc. She starts acting like a rebellious teen, and ends her ten heart event acting like a rebellious teen.

I don’t like the scene with George, but we all make mistakes. Her intentions were good, she just messed up. She’s very generous being the only adult in the whole valley willing to tutor the only children in the place so remote it doesn’t even have a formal public school. She also takes them to the playground and occasionally ginger island in between school days so they don’t have to wait for auntie Marnie to stop staring at the microwave or auntie or uncle to get home from the bar, or hear their mom freak out about more messes to clean or dirty hands from digging in the dirt looking for bugs. She also goes through abuse emotional (and likely physical) beyond belief and has likely PTSD nightmares and flashbacks of her father that are even worse. So even though she appears weak, she is incredibly strong. She doesn’t even have a counselor to work through her issues with, she’s doing it all on her own. I’m a fan of hers. I’m straight so I wouldn’t marry her but I would have her as a roommate like Krobus while she waits for Sam to work up the courage’s to ask her to marry him. 😉😋
She needs a counselor to work through her issues with, not a life partner to dump on.

Honestly, her and Sam would end horribly. Sam doesn't have the maturity to understand what is going on in Penny's head and is likely to take things at face value. He doesn't have a career path to support a family, which Penny desires. He's stuck in a dead end job with no hope of advancement, and without even the realization that he's already pidgenholed himself into that role. He's a nice guy, but he wouldn't understand what Penny needs vs what she says she needs. Sam is basically a younger Shane that hasn't sunk into the bottle yet. And the combination of trying to work double shifts to keep food on the table and a roof over their head plus Penny's emotional needs that she *won't* openly discuss, is going to drive him there.
 
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