Genders

[Yuni Cosmo]

Because it’s Pride Month (at least in the UK), I would like it if you could add a non-binary option to the character maker, or at least the ability to pick pronouns. While this game is amazing in diversity, I, and many others, would find it awesome to be represented gender-wise. Maybe, if you chose to be a boy at the beginning, but then wanted to be a girl later on, you could pick a transgender option at Mayor Lewis’ house.

Then again, I haven’t played in a while, so maybe that last option is implemented in the game? I’m no modder though, so I couldn’t create a mod for this, nor do I know of any. Thanks for listening! (From a non-binary fan) :)

(Edit: imnvs informed me that you can change gender mid-game - thanks so much! :D)
(Yet another edit: Maybe there could be LGBTQ+ flag colours for the t-shirt section on the character creation screen, if there won't be a non-binary option? Just thought of it a second ago.)

 

[Yuni Cosmo]

Oh, okay, thanks imnvs! It's brilliant that you can change your gender, thank you so much for saying (I thought that was the case, but I couldn't remember if it was a mod or not)!
It is a shame there is no non-binary option, but it is on the ''unknown'' section of possible additions to the game.. Hopefully it gets approved sometime in the future!
...That said, judging by what you said, that could be a LONG way away. I guess in the meantime, we should keep fighting for our rights everywhere.

I'm very sorry to hear that you've been treated so horribly... Just remember - while there may be rude and ignorant people in every community for every game, there will always be more good people willing to be kind and helpful, and you definitely are part of the kind category!

Edit by moderator: Removed quoted message from a removed post

 

[Odin]

I definitely hope to see a non-binary option in the game one day! This is one of the more popular requests from the community. And yes, happy Pride Month!

I just wanted to add, while we have had many discussion threads about non-binary or other gender game options on the forums (7 including yours by my count), we only needed to lock one. It's unfortunate that some game suggestions can invite rule breaking comments, but I believe that on the whole most discussions on this topic have been civil. I should note that we always encourage people to make use of the report button (at the bottom left of every message) if you ever feel uncomfortable or believe someone is breaking the rules. You can also reach out directly to a moderator (@Magically Clueless, @liquidcat, or I) if you prefer.

 

[Ennoshima]

Happy Pride Month ^.^

Just a short lil reply from me-- but I'd also enjoy seeing a non-binary option one day too. (Maybe one day we will!)

 

[Yuni Cosmo]

Happy Pride Month ^.^

Just a short lil reply from me-- but I'd also enjoy seeing a non-binary option one day too. (Maybe one day we will!)

Hopefully soon!

 

[Zen_the_Ogre]

The sad reason why you probably won't see it is because there are some countries where it's still illegal. Not saying ts right but if it was put in some governing bodies may ban the game. Yeah its stupid that it's 2021 and this still happens.

Map of Countries that Criminalise LGBT People | Human Dignity Trust

LGBT people are criminalised in 65 jurisdictions worldwide. Find out where with our map.

www.humandignitytrust.org

 

[Yuni Cosmo]

I definitely hope to see a non-binary option in the game one day! This is one of the more popular requests from the community. And yes, happy Pride Month!

I just wanted to add, while we have had many discussion threads about non-binary or other gender game options on the forums (7 including yours by my count), we only needed to lock one. It's unfortunate that some game suggestions can invite rule breaking comments, but I believe that on the whole most discussions on this topic have been civil. I should note that we always encourage people to make use of the report button (at the bottom left of every message) if you ever feel uncomfortable or believe someone is breaking the rules. You can also reach out directly to a moderator (@Magically Clueless, @liquidcat, or I) if you prefer.

Happy Pride Month! Thank you so much for taking the time to reply - I’m so glad you agree! I really appreciate the advice. And it’s great that only one was locked, and that most discussions are civil!

Thanks for your opinion!

 

[Yuni Cosmo]

The sad reason why you probably won't see it is because there are some countries where it's still illegal. Not saying ts right but if it was put in some governing bodies may ban the game. Yeah its stupid that it's 2021 and this still happens.

Map of Countries that Criminalise LGBT People | Human Dignity Trust

LGBT people are criminalised in 65 jurisdictions worldwide. Find out where with our map.

www.humandignitytrust.org

Yeah, I was thinking of bringing this up, but thought maybe it was best not to. I didn’t exactly want to dive into political matters, but I completely understand that this might be stopping ConcernedApe from adding it in. And you’re right, it IS stupid that that this stuff still happens..

But, there is a new president in America, if it is affected by this law, so maybe that might change for them (if he decides to change it), including ConcernedApe? But still, some languages might be banned due to the government/monarchy implementing that rule. Ah well, fingers crossed it changes someday soon!

 

[Ereo]

Those countries usually ban gay relationships though, and non-binary isn't even discussed there... So since gay relationships are included, I don't think that's the reason.

I'm not sure how much would have to be changed, to be honest. Willy and Marnie sometimes call you by gender terms, but most of the text is directed at you, so pronouns aren't really an issue.

It's different in some other languages, where pronouns aren't the only thing that changes with gender.

The sprite isn't all that different, I think male is a pixel taller and has bigger boots(?).

I think apart from adding a third gender choice, not choosing Male or Female but instead choosing one of the sprites would be a good option, at least for English. And Marnie could just call you Farmer instead of Mr. or Miss.

 

[Yuni Cosmo]

Those countries usually ban gay relationships though, and non-binary isn't even discussed there... So since gay relationships are included, I don't think that's the reason.

I'm not sure how much would have to be changed, to be honest. Willy and Marnie sometimes call you by gender terms, but most of the text is directed at you, so pronouns aren't really an issue.

It's different in some other languages, where pronouns aren't the only thing that changes with gender.

The sprite isn't all that different, I think male is a pixel taller and has bigger boots(?).

I think apart from adding a third gender choice, not choosing Male or Female but instead choosing one of the sprites would be a good option, at least for English. And Marnie could just call you Farmer instead of Mr. or Miss.

I completely understand this, but in some heart events where the player is not there, people refer to them as ''she'', ''her'', 'he', 'him', etc. Also, in marriage ceremonies, Mayor Lewis pronounces you husband and husband, wife and wife, or husband and wife. And when Haley first meets you, she says “Oh... you're that new farmer [boy/girl], aren't you?'' This makes pronouns a bit more of an issue. :)

I agree with the sprite option and the Marnie point though, and you're completely right about languages; for example, in Japanese, ''Boku'' (''I'' for males) would be changed to ''Watashi'' for females. However, they could just use a gender neutral term like ''Ore'' instead, and nothing would really change, other than non-binary people feeling represented. If nothing else, there's more than enough room in Pelican Town for a non-binary villager.

 

[Lew Zealand]

The sad reason why you probably won't see it is because there are some countries where it's still illegal. Not saying ts right but if it was put in some governing bodies may ban the game. Yeah its stupid that it's 2021 and this still happens.

Map of Countries that Criminalise LGBT People | Human Dignity Trust

LGBT people are criminalised in 65 jurisdictions worldwide. Find out where with our map.

www.humandignitytrust.org

I never even thought of this affecting the coding choices in a game. Thanks for posting this as I was ignorant of this stupid stupid idea.

 

[Lappy]

I'll just throw these thoughts out:

Imagine if Stardew Valley came out with an update that included non-binary options. I am guessing that it would garner a lot of publicity in the LGBTQ+ community for being one of the first (the first?) widely-distributed games to have such an option. And I'll bet that it will gain a bunch of new players who learn about the game because of it, and/or want to support it.

There would also be negative backlash. People will boycott cancel a game they never intended to play or even heard of, and others who already play may ragequit over a feature they don't even use. The admins of these forums will likely be busier than usual for a while, having to moderate (delete) offensive content, quite possibly from people who create new accounts just to flame/troll.

After a while, the dust would settle. The game will be played by people who are accepting of others' individuality, or at the very least, are capable of understanding that not all options need apply to their own Valley. Save for any persistent trolls, the forums will have a few less intolerant people.

Of course, I can't say whether this is how things would play out. But I can dream, can't I?

As for myself, I would likely start a farm with a non-binary character to see how the Valley interacts with them. I don't imagine it would be very different, if at all - I figure that in allowing such a choice, ConcernedApe wouldn't want them to get treated any differently than a binary character would. The only thing that I imagine being 'needed' is changing pronouns in dialogue text. Maybe there would be some new dialogue for some characters as they learn about something they're initially not accustomed to seeing in their world.

 

[Yuni Cosmo]

I'll just throw these thoughts out:

Imagine if Stardew Valley came out with an update that included non-binary options. I am guessing that it would garner a lot of publicity in the LGBTQ+ community for being one of the first (the first?) widely-distributed games to have such an option. And I'll bet that it will gain a bunch of new players who learn about the game because of it, and/or want to support it.

There would also be negative backlash. People will boycott cancel a game they never intended to play or even heard of, and others who already play may ragequit over a feature they don't even use. The admins of these forums will likely be busier than usual for a while, having to moderate (delete) offensive content, quite possibly from people who create new accounts just to flame/troll.

After a while, the dust would settle. The game will be played by people who are accepting of others' individuality, or at the very least, are capable of understanding that not all options need apply to their own Valley. Save for any persistent trolls, the forums will have a few less intolerant people.

Of course, I can't say whether this is how things would play out. But I can dream, can't I?

As for myself, I would likely start a farm with a non-binary character to see how the Valley interacts with them. I don't imagine it would be very different, if at all - I figure that in allowing such a choice, ConcernedApe wouldn't want them to get treated any differently than a binary character would. The only thing that I imagine being 'needed' is changing pronouns in dialogue text. Maybe there would be some new dialogue for some characters as they learn about something they're initially not accustomed to seeing in their world.

This is exactly how I think things would play out! Are you a mind-reader?!
I would like it if there was additional dialogue too. It would be interesting to see how some refer to you as well - Marnie could call you ''Mx.'' for example.
I think you're completely right about the publicity points, and (sadly) the boycotting cancelling too. Well done!

 

[Freizeitfarmer]

... could call you ''Mx.'' ...

Such ideas dont work in all languages SDV is translated to!

 

[imnvs]

Such ideas dont work in all languages SDV is translated to!

What language do you have in mind? Because the funny thing is, most languages already have 3 "genders" now and have for as long as those languages have existed.

 

[Freizeitfarmer]

What language do you have in mind? Because the funny thing is, most languages already have 3 "genders" now and have for as long as those languages have existed.

Many languages have 2 or 3 grammatical gender (I can't say if "most"). For those who have 3, you usually can't just use the neutrum grammatical gender as a neutral form to address someone. At least not in German, Russian and (as far as I know) in Polish. Neutrum in these languages normally sound like "material" things. But also the titles (male Mr. or female Miss/Mrs.) to address someone are often to different to build a mixed neural form like "Mx."

Edit: added the "grammatical" above to be more clear

 

[imnvs]

Many languages have 2 or 3 grammatical gender (I can't say if "most"). For those who have 3, you usually can't just use the neuter gender as a neutral form to address someone. At least not in German, Russian and (as far as I know) in Polish. Neutrum in these languages normally sound like "material" things. But also the titles (male Mr. or female Miss/Mrs.) to address someone are often to different to build a mixed neural form like "Mx."

So? Non-binary people speaking those languages are coming up with ways they want to be addressed. Just because you don't know or care to learn how non-binary folks from around the world want to be addressed is no reason for it to not be implemented.

 

[Cthulhu]

Yeah, the language thing shouldn't be a reason to consign the non-binary thing to the dustbin. Translators have had to figure this stuff out for millennia; whoever's doing the localization can figure out the best way to translate the changes just fine, I imagine.

Just let the player pick whichever dang sprite they want separate from gender, already. Yeesh, guys, it's not like people of all stripes don't already come in a variety pack of shapes and hues and hairstyles. :P

On a slightly different note, I'd prefer to see "Farmer" instead of "miss/mr./mx." Some of you may know, from an earlier thread on the same topic, that my younger child is non-binary; I've gotten pretty comfortable with "they" as a pronoun, but it's got a long history of being used as a singular pronoun in English. The problem with "they" and "Mx." and so forth is that--unlike "he" and "she"--it's often very difficult to know that those are the proper forms of address unless you know the person already. There isn't, in modern Western society, a commonly accepted marker for any kind of third gender/non-binary; we don't even have things like a "married-woman braid" or "widower suit" to signal super-common statuses like those, these days! Couple that with the fact that none of the marriage candidates are like, "Oh, sorry, I only date men," and I'd argue that there doesn't need to even BE a gender option in the game. Every pronoun could be "they," the player could pick whatever sprite they wanted, and you could happily fill in the blanks however you chose. Hell, even childbirth could be made ambiguous; ask they player if they want to adopt or get pregnant, don't specify which partner carries the baby, and move on.

THAT would be genuinely inclusive, would let you play however you wanted to, and wouldn't break the game.

 

[Zen_the_Ogre]

Just saying that you guys forget how recently shows like Stephen Universe, Adventure Time, and Sailor Moon get banned/censored for claiming morality. I mean they took Finn of the poster of starwars in china because he was too black.

China by the way is a huge market for gaming (media in general). They are still iffy on the whole non binary issue.


I still remember there was a rpg on PS1 that you had to date these different characters to power up you sword (not a euphemism). The game included pink themed motels that you can sleep at to restore health but during a date if you tried it would state "This countries version does not allow cohabitating between genders". While I understand a need and a want for this and support it at the same time you got to understand the potential bind it puts a developer in when trying to market a game in less open minded countries.

 

[Freizeitfarmer]

So? Non-binary people speaking those languages are coming up with ways they want to be addressed.

I haven't said something different.

Just because you don't know or care to learn how non-binary folks from around the world want to be addressed is no reason for it to not be implemented.

You are quite quick to insinuate for a supposedly so open-minded person.

I don't think you speak German, Russian or Polish, do you? As I said grammatical-neutrum may sound like a "material" thing (in contrast to a "living" person). And that's just for these languages. In other languages it can be different again.
Also "Mr." and "Mrs."/"Miss" are similar enough to have also similar "Mx." for LGBTQ+ . But such similarities are not given in other languages that easy. That's all I have said!