Dagger Build- 1.5 Spoilers

Boo1972

Boo1972

Farmer
Hey y’all, this post contains mild 1.5 spoilers. You’ve been warned.

I found a dragontooth shiv and have actually been enjoying it. I took it in the hard mode of the mines and the shiv could use some upgrades. I’m thinking ring wise of combining an immunity band and protection ring and then just wearing my iridium band/burglar ring. It’s fall of my second year so I don’t have access to all the rings yet. But, maybe an aquamarine or jade ring?

I’m really not sure how to forge the shiv. I’ve never used daggers before. I think it’s the critical power I enjoy. So an advice from people who use daggers would be appreciated.
 
Giant Octopodes

Giant Octopodes

Farmer
Glad you're enjoying it! Here's a question for you:

Is it primarily the special attack you enjoy and use, or do you often swing it without the special? I ask because you *could* treat it like a hammer (acrobat + artful), but there are a lot of enemies in the Dangerous Mines in particular whose HP exceeds that of just one crit with the Dragontooth Shiv if running Acrobat, but does not if running Desperado. So I'd try it out both ways, see whether the special attack reduction or greater likelihood of a OHKO works better for you.

Regardless, Crits are where it's at with Dragontooth weapons, so I'd slap 3 Aquamarines on it if you haven't already. Desperado + Artful has more consistent kill potential than Crusader + Acrobat, so personally i put Artful on it and like it better that way.

For rings the Protection Ring is nice but I think the Crabshell ring would serve you better, for all but the most damaging enemies in there (Skulls, Ghosts, Skeleton Mages, Red Slimes, and Shadow Brutes) the Crabshell Ring halves or more damage taken. The ones where it does not tend to have low rates of attack so the increased invulnerability frames are unlikely to do more. An Immunity Band is a great thing to have if you're finding yourself debuffed, some of those debuffs can be Terrible. Maybe try Immunity + Crabshell and Iridium + Burglar?

Best of luck and I hope you have fun!
 
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imnvs

imnvs

Local Legend
If you really want to lean into this, what you do is go Desperado for profession, forge it with 3 aquamarines and wear 2 aquamarine rings fused with iridium bands. You'll crit way too often and pop enemies like they are balloons.

The only weapon better for this build, for those that like dagger builds, is the Iridium Needle. (I have done the math before, and I can find it if folks would like me to.)
 
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Giant Octopodes

Giant Octopodes

Farmer
imnvs said:
If you really want to lean into this, what you do is go Desperado for profession, forge it with 3 aquamarines and wear 2 aquamarine rings fused with iridium bands. You'll crit way too often and pop enemies like they are balloons.

The only weapon better for this build, for those that like dagger builds, is the Iridium Needle.
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I disagree about the Iridium Needle being better. The low base damage Really hurts it. You *must* get a crit to kill something with it, which while very likely with a special, makes you entirely reliant on that special to kill enemies. However you need Desperado so your time between specials is higher than desirable. If you get unlucky and *don't* crit and kill an enemy (which even with 2 aquamarine rings happens more than 10% of the time) you're stuck waiting for your next special attack to be ready to finish it off. The Dragontooth Shiv conversely, with a higher base damage, higher max crit damage, and higher average damage, has the distinct advantage of doing enough on a special even without a crit to come close to killing most foes. Another hit or two finishes them off. The crit chance isn't that much lower either, so your OHKOs remain frequent and satisfying. Of course different folks for different strokes, and certainly the Iridium Needle is fun and worth testing if you like daggers, but having played with both I know which one I preferred.
 
imnvs

imnvs

Local Legend
Giant Octopodes said:
I disagree about the Iridium Needle being better. The low base damage Really hurts it. You *must* get a crit to kill something with it, which while very likely with a special, makes you entirely reliant on that special to kill enemies. However you need Desperado so your time between specials is higher than desirable. If you get unlucky and *don't* crit and kill an enemy (which even with 2 aquamarine rings happens more than 10% of the time) you're stuck waiting for your next special attack to be ready to finish it off. The Dragontooth Shiv conversely, with a higher base damage, higher max crit damage, and higher average damage, has the distinct advantage of doing enough on a special even without a crit to come close to killing most foes. Another hit or two finishes them off. The crit chance isn't that much lower either, so your OHKOs remain frequent and satisfying. Of course different folks for different strokes, and certainly the Iridium Needle is fun and worth testing if you like daggers, but having played with both I know which one I preferred.
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See, this is why I was talking about doing the math. The iridium needle's high crit chance and power, if you do the numbers, surpasses the low base damage. So, because we're having this discussion again, here's the math (Dagger refers to Infinity Dagger, Shiv is the Dragontooth Shiv, and Needle is the Iridium Needle):
imnvs said:
Okay, for sake of argument let's use averages and assume Desperado...

Dagger, crit rate 42.7%, crit power 0, avg damage 60, avg damage on crit 360, avg per hit damage over time: (.427*360)+(.573*60)=188.1
Shiv, crit rate 39.1%, crit power +100, avg damage 45, avg damage on crit 450, avg per hit damage over time: (.391*450)+(.609*45)=203.355
Needle, crit rate 53.5%, crit power +200, avg damage 27.5, avg damage on crit 385, avg per hit damage over time: (.535*385)+(.465*27.5)=218.7625

Despite the lower initial damage, the Needle comes out ahead over time... provided you are just looking at total amount of damage. (Remember, damage overflow isn't saved up and is lost, reducing damage over time. If a monster had 50 hp and you crit for 450, you just wasted 400 damage and your average goes down.)
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So, in conclusion, because of how often it crits, the Iridium Needle actually does outperform the other weapons when looking at total damage.
 
Boo1972

Boo1972

Farmer
Thank you both for your feedback. @Giant Octopodes i rarely use the special attack except when I use a hammer. I’ll have to try it out more with the dagger. I’m embarrassed to admit that it hadn’t occurred to me to change my combat profession. I’ll definitely go the desperado route.

I’ll hope for artful at the forge. I’m a little low on prismatic shards, but maybe I’ll be lucky. I do have plenty of aquamarines. As far as rings go, I’m leaning towards crab shell+immunity and iridium+aquamarine. I do have 2 lucky rings- does luck affect critical hit chance? I’m assuming it doesn’t affect critical hit power.
 
Giant Octopodes

Giant Octopodes

Farmer
imnvs said:
See, this is why I was talking about doing the math. The iridium needle's high crit chance and power, if you do the numbers, surpasses the low base damage. So, because we're having this discussion again, here's the math (Dagger refers to Infinity Dagger, Shiv is the Dragontooth Shiv, and Needle is the Iridium Needle):

So, in conclusion, because of how often it crits, the Iridium Needle actually does outperform the other weapons when looking at total damage.
Click to expand...
This is just incorrect though. Both from a math and practical standpoint. From a math standpoint, your figures are wrong. Here's the right ones:

Needle: Crit rate = (.1+.046+.046+.046)*(1.1)*(1.1)*(1.5) = 43.197%. Not 53.5%. Average non-crit damage is 33.275 with 2 Iridium Bands as you recommended, that's not a mistake though just your initial calculations were without Iridium Bands. On a crit average damage is 465.85 (again with the rings), so it's ((.43197*465.85 = 201.23) + (.56803*33.275 = 18.90) = 220.13 average damage.

Dragontooth: Crit rate = (.05+.046+.046+.046)*(1.1)*(1.1)*(1.5) = 34.12%, not 39.1%. However with an average non-crit damage of 54.45 (again with the rings) and an average crit damage of 544.5, it's ((.3412*544.5 = 185.78) + (.6588 * 54.5 = 35.90) = 221.66 average damage.

The Dragontooth has a higher average damage. In fact in virtually any setup of equipment you want to run, the Dragontooth comes out ahead when comparing apples to apples. Barely, but consistently. Feel free to check out a sheet which will auto calculate for a given equipment setup for whatever you like to verify. C'mon Imnvs, you should know, I do the math :-)

docs.google.com

Stardew Valley Combat v1.0

docs.google.com docs.google.com

However, it's not about the average damage. Average damage is nice and all, but neither accounts for wasted damage from overkill, nor worst case scenarios. The maximum hits to kill for a Carbon Ghost with a Shiv is 4. Your special takes care of that nicely. The max hits to kill with the Needle is 8. Just play with them both. Hitting and not critting with the Shiv feels bad. Hitting and not critting with the Needle feels TERRIBLE.
 
Boo1972

Boo1972

Farmer
Those jumping spiders dropped an iridium needle! I’ll try out both daggers and give the absolute, 100% definitive assessment on which is better the dragontooth shiv or the iridium needle. :wink:
 
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