Preserves jars vs Kegs profitability

[Pangaearocks]

Fine. I'm dumb and ignore everything because no other information than kegs are always the one true solution is impossible to compute. Ignore everything else. Always build kegs. Nothing else. Ever.

 

[Farrow]

Fine. I'm dumb and ignore everything because no other information than kegs are always the one true solution is impossible to compute. Ignore everything else. Always build kegs. Nothing else. Ever.

For what it's worth I'm thankful for the time you put in on the chart. I actually understand it's use unlike some

 

[FilthyGorilla]

Fine. I'm dumb and ignore everything because no other information than kegs are always the one true solution is impossible to compute. Ignore everything else. Always build kegs. Nothing else. Ever.

That’s not necessarily true.

Jars are much better if you have an excess of those materials and don’t need an exceeding amount.

They are much better if you aren’t buying for one and usually like 10-20 of them will be made in my play throughs.

That 160 coal for 20 machines which is pretty crazy early game.

I instead like to tap farm trees before unlocking the desert/railroad where I plant 40-50.

Kegs are much easier though that doesn’t disregard jars.
The things that is kind of assumed here on top of what’s already said is that all crops are:
1. Worth the same in terms of planting area per processing machine
2. People will be following this and doing so with even low teir crops

This massively brings down the average profitability of the crops and makes the hat seem that much more superior.
In actuality, anyone making any sort of kegging and jarring operation and under no imposed restrictions will be planting a set few crops.
For me it’s strawberries, kale, and potatoes first spring where it doesn’t matter.
Melons and starfruit for summer. Always both but melons If I want to be more casual.
Yeah his save I got 400 melons and 80 starfruit and when those are done I’ll sell enough raw to cover the field in starfruit and process the rest in kegs of which I have way enough of to do so.
The second batch of sf will be done around the 25th of summer.
I’ll have a larger field by then, about 1000 crops which will have deluxe speed gro and pumpkins.

In reality there are only 3 crops I use for money, all of which fare relatively well in kegs as well as jars though when I want to make the most cash with them, jars isn’t my concern.

 

[imnvs]

Fine. I'm dumb and ignore everything because no other information than kegs are always the one true solution is impossible to compute. Ignore everything else. Always build kegs. Nothing else. Ever.

Two things...

One: there are literally a lot of things that are MORE profitable in a jar than a keg, even when you're not computing by g/day as I criticized this chart for.

Two: please do not use the ableist term you used to describe yourself. It is definitely considered a slur these days.

 

[Farrow]

And your both forgetting the use of this chart. For when your time is more important than the profits like in winter and you have tons of excess to process

 

[imnvs]

And your both forgetting the use of this chart. For when your time is more important than the profits like in winter and you have tons of excess to process

Actually, I know exactly what this is for, and that isn't it. During the winter you ideally start with excess to process... but it's the rest of the year that you're accruing the excess and deciding whether to put stuff in jars and kegs. That's why you make the decisions. That's when this is relevant.

And it is irrelevant to me anyway. I have 8 big sheds full of jars and kegs. I process over 500 ancient fruit wine every week. If someone was to put ancient fruit in a jar in my game I would slap the soul right out of their body. I don't care if it is more g/day. I'm looking for total profit. I have the production capability.

 

[Farrow]

If it's irrelevant to you then why are you here? And for two again it's it's when time is worth more than profits. When you have to much to keep up with your output in crops. Beyond that what does it matter to you if you know what it's for? Because if everyone knew what its for then there shouldn't be any argument against increasing people's knowledge and understanding of the game. Something tells me you just want to argue and prove their margins are wrong when it's based differently than anything on the wiki otherwise.

 

[imnvs]

If it's irrelevant to you then why are you here? And for two again it's it's when time is worth more than profits. When you have to much to keep up with your output in crops. Beyond that what does it matter to you if you know what it's for? Because if everyone knew what its for then there shouldn't be any argument against increasing people's knowledge and understanding of the game. Something tells me you just want to argue and prove their margins are wrong when it's based differently than anything on the wiki otherwise.

Because someone that doesn't understand the math behind this is going to be confused about how much profit they can make. The chart isn't for me, but I want it not to mislead others.

 

[Lenora Rose]

Two: please do not use the ableist term you used to describe yourself. It is definitely considered a slur these days.

You're not wrong about this, it's a terrible word and I hope it gets edited away.

But it seems odd that you are happy to keep trampling over the obvious present hurt feelings while worrying about the feelings harmed by the presence of a slur.

 

[imnvs]

You're not wrong about this, it's a terrible word and I hope it gets edited away.

But it seems odd that you are happy to keep trampling over the obvious present hurt feelings while worrying about the feelings harmed by the presence of a slur.

(sigh) I can not understand why feelings are being hurt solely because I'm pointing out that this chart needs to be fixed so as to not mislead people?

 

[One More Day]

Fine. I'm dumb and ignore everything because no other information than kegs are always the one true solution is impossible to compute. Ignore everything else. Always build kegs. Nothing else. Ever.

No, you're not dumb, and nobody said you were. But in cases where total profit is our main driver, which is surely the purpose of your post, your implicit assumption that there is some sort of capacity limit on processing simply isn't valid in most cases, and I feel it has lead you to a false general conclusion. If there is any capacity limit at all, it's not time for the machines to process and it's certainly not space to put machines; as already pointed out, for the former, any such time limit is arbitrary and self-imposed, and for the latter, with the enormous amount of total space available across the SDV world, you will run out of growing space long before you run out of space to put machines.

The ultimate limit, if it existed, would in fact be this: whether you put a crop in a keg or in a jar, it's one interaction to load it in the machine, and another interaction to collect it when finished, and after accounting for the time needed to plant and harvest, your limit is the number of interactions that can be performed in the time available. And given that it's also impossible to run out of time to load and unload machines before you run out of crops to process, (because even with 7 days in a keg, the growth time of all the most valuable crops is still longer than the processing time), so you're financially better off getting as much money as possible per interaction. And the fact is, for the more expensive crops, you simply get more money per interaction when you perform those interactions with a keg than with a jar. The amount of time between those two interactions is irrelevant unless you have some sort of niche requirement for getting the cash exactly four days faster, but in all honesty, once you reach a certain point, you'll always have all the ready cash you need, negating the benefit of getting your artisan goods four days earlier.

For the cheaper crops, if you really want to process them, then sure, stick some of them in jars instead of kegs, because it's better money per interaction; personally I can't be bothered to process the likes of parsnips and blueberries at all, because of the lousy profit per interaction compared to the boredom factor of maintaining machines, and I'd rather chase excitement in Skull Cavern, but that's just a personal play-style preference.

TBH, the top performing veggies, like pumpkins, cauliflower and red cabbage, are so close in price from kegs and jars that it's barely worth worrying about either way as long as they get processed. But given how expensive jars are to make in comparison, and given that the real big money items, fruits like starfruit, ancient fruit, pineapples and melons, are simply so much better in kegs, I mean literally hundreds of g better, jarring them is basically burning money.

 

[Magically Clueless]

Just a general reminder to everyone to be civil and respectful to one another and disengage if you feel someone is being antagonistic or trying to argue.

Re: use of a certain word, this wasn't on our censor which I've added, so keep in mind for any future posts. I've edited the relevant posts.

 

[imnvs]

Just a general reminder to everyone to be civil and respectful to one another and disengage if you feel someone is being antagonistic or trying to argue.

Re: use of a certain word, this wasn't on our censor which I've added, so keep in mind for any future posts. I've edited the relevant posts.

Just to double check, please to make sure variations on that word are included.

 

[aeywa]

I've had the same question about why people regard kegs to be the highest profit possible... Factoring in grow times cannot be ignored but when you look at the crops that regrow, Jars typically win. My greenhouse has 15 peach & 15 pom trees, so Jars are easier to use since I process every single day. Generally the highest profit crops for the overall season are regrow crops, so Jars take precedence for me. I'm glad I'm not alone in questioning the dominant belief that kegs are the ultimate goal!

 

[FilthyGorilla]

I've had the same question about why people regard kegs to be the highest profit possible... Factoring in grow times cannot be ignored but when you look at the crops that regrow, Jars typically win. My greenhouse has 15 peach & 15 pom trees, so Jars are irrefutably better since I process every single day. Generally your highest profit crops for the overall season are regrow crops, so Jars take precedence for me. I'm glad I'm not alone in questioning the dominant belief that kegs are the ultimate goal!

Kegs are in some way the “ultimate goal” regarding crop processing, no matter how good jars may be in certain scenarios.
There is really no use pursuing jars later than the first parts of the game and never en masse.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I've had the same question about why people regard kegs to be the highest profit possible... Factoring in grow times cannot be ignored but when you look at the crops that regrow, Jars typically win. My greenhouse has 15 peach & 15 pom trees, so Jars are irrefutably better since I process every single day. Generally your highest profit crops for the overall season are regrow crops, so Jars take precedence for me. I'm glad I'm not alone in questioning the dominant belief that kegs are the ultimate goal!

Peaches and Pomegranates are generally better to Jar than Keg, yes. You do get some additional profit from Kegs on an absolute scale, but it requires much more infrastructure (seven kegs per tree rather than three jars). Same with less expensive fruits like blueberries and cranberries, and most vegetables. No one ever said 'keg everything'. That is not the dominant belief. It is only the dominant belief that high-profit fruits should be kegged. Including Ancient Fruit, which also happens to be a crop that continuously produces.

And actually your specific case is an excellent demonstration of the flaw inherent in the original spreadsheet. The constraint on gold output of your greenhouse is how much you can grow in it. Without getting into pots, you're looking at 30 trees, infilled with 104 ancient fruit. That's the most you can have without getting into pots. Your constraint is not on production capacity, your constraint is on number of crops you can grow. Therefore, you want to maximize profit per crop, therefore you want to keg, because you are losing (assuming Artisan) 700g per ancient fruit you jar vs keg. You can make 104 kegs. You can't make ancient fruit jelly be worth more. Sure, you can get away with 52 jars (remember, you can't harvest fractions, so you have to round up), but you're still going to be making less money per week and less money per season if you do.

For peaches and Pomegranates, you need 90 jars or 210 kegs, because they produce daily. Now, 210 kegs is an awful lot of kegs to make just to see a return of an additional 126g/fruit. Eventually, your infrastructure costs will be amortized over time from your additional profits until you hit the break-even point, and from there it is pure profit, but that is a point few players actually reach. So jarring, while less profitable from an absolute perspective, makes sense from a practical perspective. But losing 700g/fruit when you're harvesting over 100 fruits per week is 70k/wk your losing. That's a LOT of money you are leaving on the table by jarring instead of kegging. Especially when it becomes more complicated to conduct and requires more user input at awkward intervals.

The point isn't 'jars are useless', the point is that kegs aren't useless either, which is what that spreadsheet implies.

Context is important. That spreadsheet, as displayed, loses that context and presents data in a very misleading manner.

 

[aeywa]

There is really no use pursuing jars later than the first parts of the game and never en masse.

Very true. I use them for early/first half of mid game and then just to process the fruit trees.

you are losing (assuming Artisan) 700g per ancient fruit you jar vs keg.

My ancient fruit gets kegged tho. I only jar the peaches and poms.

So jarring, while less profitable from an absolute perspective, makes sense from a practical perspective. But losing 700g/fruit when you're harvesting over 100 fruits per week is 70k/wk your losing

The key thing for me is practicality. How long would it take me to get 210 oak resin vs outright buying the materials for a jar? And that's for kegging solely 30 fruit trees. I'd much rather put my time towards a supermassive ancient fruit keg crop for Y2-3. I'm not hardcore enough to do the math for time waiting on oak resin for profit's sake, but again looking at purchasing 100% of the materials for a jar vs keg.
Jar -> 8500G
Keg -> 8000G (includes cost of coal for smelting bars and buying materials for 1 tapper per keg)
I'm saving 500G for a keg, but how would we broach awkward intervals and more user input for gathering oak resin? The sheer quantity needed requires either tons of time/energy mining or tons of money for buying. Maybe my math is wrong but if I'm artisan kegging a peach I'm getting 588g for 7 days. 84/g a day. Meanwhile jelly is 462g in 2.5 days. ~184/g a day. That's the basic math that OP uses, right? I'm not stating the jars>kegs overall, but for fruit trees in the greenhouse specifically, for me, jars>kegs.
210 kegs = 1,680,000g + time planting oak trees and harvesting resin
90 jars = 765,000g
I'm saving 915,000g on cost by investing in jars.
90 peach wines/week = 52,920 x 16 = 846,720
90 peach jellies/week = 41,580 x 16 = 665,280
I'm losing 181,440g a year by jarring, so it would take 5 years to break even the cost of kegging *30 greenhouse peach trees*. I think I've only had 1 farm that went to y5 but that's my own playstyle.

definitely could be doing the math wrong. But I'm here to learn, so it'd be awesome to see how to do it properly if that's the case!

 

[Farrow]

To Reiterate my opinion here. This chart is showing the gold per day increase on each product, kegs have a longer processing time so they will be more valuable long term but that said when you have more crops than machines say you just got your first ginger Island harvest of 700+ ancient fruit or star fruit. The average player isnt going to have the materials to keep up with that regularly so time is more valuable in that instance to the player, this chart shows if you had infinite crops which would be more profitable per tile per day.

 

[FilthyGorilla]

Very true. I use them for early/first half of mid game and then just to process the fruit trees.


My ancient fruit gets kegged tho. I only jar the peaches and poms.


The key thing for me is practicality. How long would it take me to get 210 oak resin vs outright buying the materials for a jar? And that's for kegging solely 30 fruit trees. I'd much rather put my time towards a supermassive ancient fruit keg crop for Y2-3. I'm not hardcore enough to do the math for time waiting on oak resin for profit's sake, but again looking at purchasing 100% of the materials for a jar vs keg.
Jar -> 8500G
Keg -> 8000G (includes cost of coal for smelting bars and buying materials for 1 tapper per keg)
I'm saving 500G for a keg, but how would we broach awkward intervals and more user input for gathering oak resin? The sheer quantity needed requires either tons of time/energy mining or tons of money for buying. Maybe my math is wrong but if I'm artisan kegging a peach I'm getting 588g for 7 days. 84/g a day. Meanwhile jelly is 462g in 2.5 days. ~184/g a day. That's the basic math that OP uses, right? I'm not stating the jars>kegs overall, but for fruit trees in the greenhouse specifically, jars>kegs.
210 kegs = 1,680,000g + time planting oak trees and harvesting resin
90 jars = 765,000g
I'm saving 915,000g on cost by investing in jars.
90 peach wines/week = 52,920 x 16 = 846,720
90 peach jellies/week = 41,580 x 16 = 665,280
I'm losing 181,440g a year by jarring, so it would take 5 years to break even the cost of kegging *30 greenhouse peach trees*. I think I've only had 1 farm that went to y5 but that's my own playstyle.

definitely could be doing the math wrong. But I'm here to learn, so it'd be awesome to see how to do it properly if that's the case!

You aren’t really getting the point of the costs here.
Iron is super easy to get, like in the regular mines you can easily get 400+ ore a day.
When doing so with burglar ring that’s also probably about 60-70 coal as you aren’t aiming for sprites.

The only material you really ever need to buy is wood and copper if making more than a few dozen kegs as it’s used for tappers and kegs.

Oak resin is super easy to get, you could buy all of the copper for all of the kegs and tappers for 210 kegs and it would take less cash than just buying the coal for the same amount of jars.

That’s also making 210 oak resin a day week which unless you have a time constraint is not needed at all.

Just 50-60 for a casual player is beyond needed.

Actually you could buy all the copper for the kegs, all the copper for 60 tappers, all the coal to smelt all the copper and the iron for the kegs, and still have enough to buy the wood for about 70% of the kegs.

This is also only as counting for the cost to buy the coal for the jars, not the stone nor wood.

All prices are year one though besides wood they scale relatively evenly.

 

[aeywa]

You aren’t really getting the point of the costs here.
Iron is super easy to get, like in the regular mines you can easily get 400+ ore a day.
When doing so with burglar ring that’s also probably about 60-70 coal as you aren’t aiming for sprites.

The only material you really ever need to buy is wood and copper if making more than a few dozen kegs as it’s used for tappers and kegs.

Oak resin is super easy to get, you could buy all of the copper for all of the kegs and tappers for 210 kegs and it would take less cash than just buying the coal for the same amount of jars.

That’s also making 210 oak resin a day week which unless you have a time constraint is not needed at all.

Just 50-60 for a casual player is beyond needed.

Actually you could buy all the copper for the kegs, all the copper for 60 tappers, all the coal to smelt all the copper and the iron for the kegs, and still have enough to buy the wood for about 70% of the kegs.

This is also only as counting for the cost to buy the coal for the jars, not the stone nor wood.

All prices are year one though besides wood they scale relatively evenly.

my cost is y2 prices and essentially only the gold price of buying everything outright for simplicity. Trying to factor the time/energy cost of gathering was not my goal in the breakdown.