[Spoilers] Junimo Kart improvements wishlist

Paranoic

Paranoic

Sodbuster
Hi!

After revisiting Junimo Kart lately I got reminded of how annoying the minigame is at times, and not only thanks to the learning curve. I've sunk quite a bit of time playing it, and it is a fun minigame (and much better than its older version), but there are some things that still annoy me, even when I can almost consistently pass the game. So, here's a small list of mostly quality of life improvements I think would be nice, just to make it a little more fair:

  • Probably my biggest issue: there should be a practice mode, where you're able to select and replay any previously seen level, and have infinite lives. That would really help in learning the later levels (or the alternate variants which you're not guaranteed to see), since currently you need to grind all the way just to see them and fail due to lack of knowledge how to tackle obstacles if you're starting out
  • Move the progress bar to the bottom of the level. Alternatively, make it more transparent (or make it fade out when cart approaches it). Being at the top it sometimes obscures vision of the higher platforms, which is a cause for some sad deaths when you can't quite see how high you need to jump
  • On the topic of obscuring vision, waterfalls in crumble cavern (level 1) could be made more transparent (unless they're meant to be a really unfair obstacle). Currently it's a little hard to see what's under them, which, again, leads to infuriating deaths
  • Nerf red mushrooms (projectile shooting ones in glowshroom grotto (level 5)). I like the glowshroom level, but there's so many obstacles to learn (see point 1.), and red mushrooms can spawn so close to one another they basically force you to die and hope you'll synchronize better when you reach them again. So I think increasing the minimal distance between two red mushrooms would be in place for an already difficult level
And that would be it, not a very long list, but I think it would make the minigame slightly better. If you too have any ideas how to improve the minigame, feel free to suggest them as well ^^
 
lilan castel

lilan castel

Farmer
Paranoic said:
Hi!

After revisiting Junimo Kart lately I got reminded of how annoying the minigame is at times, and not only thanks to the learning curve. I've sunk quite a bit of time playing it, and it is a fun minigame (and much better than its older version), but there are some things that still annoy me, even when I can almost consistently pass the game. So, here's a small list of mostly quality of life improvements I think would be nice, just to make it a little more fair:

  • Probably my biggest issue: there should be a practice mode, where you're able to select and replay any previously seen level, and have infinite lives. That would really help in learning the later levels (or the alternate variants which you're not guaranteed to see), since currently you need to grind all the way just to see them and fail due to lack of knowledge how to tackle obstacles if you're starting out
  • Move the progress bar to the bottom of the level. Alternatively, make it more transparent (or make it fade out when cart approaches it). Being at the top it sometimes obscures vision of the higher platforms, which is a cause for some sad deaths when you can't quite see how high you need to jump
  • On the topic of obscuring vision, waterfalls in crumble cavern (level 1) could be made more transparent (unless they're meant to be a really unfair obstacle). Currently it's a little hard to see what's under them, which, again, leads to infuriating deaths
  • Nerf red mushrooms (projectile shooting ones in glowshroom grotto (level 5)). I like the glowshroom level, but there's so many obstacles to learn (see point 1.), and red mushrooms can spawn so close to one another they basically force you to die and hope you'll synchronize better when you reach them again. So I think increasing the minimal distance between two red mushrooms would be in place for an already difficult level
And that would be it, not a very long list, but I think it would make the minigame slightly better. If you too have any ideas how to improve the minigame, feel free to suggest them as well ^^
Click to expand...
you forgot the SAVE option
 
Maw

Maw

Farmhand
Yes - I was so pleased when I first made it through Crumble Cavern, because in all other similar games I've played, you can start from the next level once you've beaten the first one. SOMEthing so you don't have to grind through it EVERY time. I just started playing it the last couple of weeks - hours of practice and this old lady can only get through the Crumble Cavern maybe once out of every 20 tries. At this rate I estimate about 100 hours to get to a point where I can beat Lewis' score in Endless mode, and I really want to pursue other things besides this one Qi Quest!! Once upon a time I thought the fishing minigame was rough, but unlike fishing, it feels like the learning curve is MUCH steeper - and Junimo Kart never gets easier (like leveling up skills for other things) instead it gets harder. Really would like to be able to practice levels individually.
 
450735

450735

Rancher
A bit late to the party, but I've been thinking about this one for a while.

I actually find Junino Kart to be quite fun, and I would actually like to play it more, but as is, it's just too punitive to encourage replayability, IMO. Endless is fine as it is (after all, it's endless mode, the embodiment of die-and-retry), but, with all due respect to the creator (I reiterate that Junimo Kart by itself is an awesome minigame), the so-called Progression mode doesn't feel progressive at all, but rather like a much more frustrating and much less rewarding endless mode. Having the levels be randomised AND non permanently unlockable is the worst of both worlds. (Not to mention, it's also basically the whole premise of the Endless mode.) Radomised levels make it harder to efficiently develop skills, since it constantly relies on quick thinking and improvisation rather than repetition of familiar patterns (like we were playing blind all the time), and it's impossible to plan ahead. Also, since the RNG might hand you a more or less forgiving level layout, combined with the absence of efficient strategies, it makes a successful run of a level feel much more like a stroke of luck that actual skill.

Problem is, even luck isn't rewarded after all that, since, again, even if you make it, the RNG might just want to welcome you with a hard layout, on a level that you might not even know the mechanics of, making it even harder to hope to pass it. And have fun to start over and over again from the very beginning, just to have a chance to reach that level you want to train on, just to die after ten seconds because of an ill-placed hazard you had no chance of knowing was there. And that's certainly not helped by the fact that there are paths leading to two different, randomly selected levels.

Sure, there's always the aforementioned mod to help alleviate those issues, but mods shouldn't be the end-all, be-all solution of problems like this that can be corrected in the base game. AFAIK, there are no achievements/rewards/quests associated with Progression mode, so any changes wouldn't make it unfair to past players like modifying JotPK would. So here are my two suggestions:

1- Keep the randomised aspect of the game, but reward luck by making the levels permanently unlockable (meaning that once you unlock a level, you can replay it whenever you wish). This could be accomplished by gathering all the fruits/a certain number of coins/etc. in a level. If you make it to the end without accomplishing that secondary objective, you can either proceed the the next one without unlocking it (and death makes you go back to the beginning), or you just have to restart the same level until you actually make it properly. I'm personally not too fond of the idea of rewarding luck instead of skill, and it might have some balance issues, but it's a possible solution.

2- Levels are not unlockable, but the layouts are fixed for the entire duration of the game and only randomised when you quit the game or make it through the last level succesfully. This would reward strategy and skill, as well as giving players a real sense of progression instead of wishing for good RNG. Collectibles and lives would still matter, since losing all your lives will make you restart from the beginning. There could even be a system of "continues" (like late 80s/early 90s console games) that you couls win after collecting X number of coins or something. This solution is more balanced and more rewarding as a whole, though it might mess with the branching paths and a secret hidden in the game, I don't know.

My two cents :smile:
 

StardewPally

Newcomer
My list for Junimo Kart improvements generally revolves around ONE level - The Glowshroom Grotto

#1 Nerf the Red Mushrooms - Give a minimum distance between spawns, increase the time between puffs (at least a 50% increase), make them killable if you bounce on them, send them back to hell where they belong, *anything* really but the red mushrooms are the WORST. I'd give up every other item on my list for this one

#2 Increase the lantern spawn rate in Grotto - I don't know if lantern spawns are linked with track length (and the grotto being mostly empty space), but I've found a shocking lack of lanterns in this level, such that I can luck my way through 25-33% of the level, die and then be sent back to the BEGINNING OF THE LEVEL minus the luck that brought me that far

#3 Nerf the Purple Mushrooms/Falling Boulders - These aren't usually so bad, but they often spawn on single-tile sections of track which can catapult you over any safe ground, effectively providing a no-win situation that can't be avoided. The same is sometimes true of falling boulders landing on single-tile sections making them extremely hazardous even on the first level. This isn't nearly as bad as the purple mushrooms, though, as the boulders aren't always in the way whereas the mushrooms are static on the track making them unavoidable (i.e. certain death)

#4 Limit end-of-track obstacles - Some obstacles (I'm looking at you roadblocks!) will frequently appear on the last tile before a jump (and on very small tile sections, especially at different heights this can be very difficult to survive). These tight jumps are possible but if their spawn was restricted from the last 1-2 tiles before a jump it would make many levels much more forgiving

Let me reiterate that every other suggestion in this list can be thrown out in exchange for the first one. Nerf the Red Mushrooms, they are absolute GARBO
 
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