I can't math

hexnessie

Sodbuster
... or the game rounds up/down different than I thought.

So I planted some beets with Deluxe SG on Fall 19. According to my calculations, they should have been ready in 5 days. But they were ready in 4 - harvested them on 23rd. This is with Artisan, not Agriculturalist.

I thought maybe I wasn't remembering things correctly, so I replanted the beets on 23rd. They were, again, ready in 4 days, on 27th.

Is this supposed to happen? I thought 25% of 6 days would be less than 2 days.
 
I am curious how you find 5 days.

This is how I am calculating...

6 days X 0.25 (or 25%) = 1.5 => rounded to 2 ((I presume that CA programmed not to leave the decimal in his code by rounded it.))
6 days - 2 = 4 days

OR

6 days X 0.25 (0.25%) = 1.5
6 days - 1.5 = 4.5 => without being rounded.

Edit: Also, I am curious how CA programmed in the calculation too. –Because the numbers we get are integers.
 
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hexnessie

Sodbuster
Exactly - I also got 1.5 days and thought these would be rounded down, so that there is some difference between Deluxe Speed Gro (1.5 days) and Hyper Speed Gro (full 2 days). Otherwise both would give a reduction to just 4 days on beets, which doesn't seem right.

I'm playing the beta version but can't say if it's any different from normal (I honestly don't remember how long beets used to grow in the regular version)
 
Hyper Seed - Go = 33% or 0.33
Hyper seed -Go [Agriculturist] = 43 % or 0.43
Presuming you are growing beets as Artisan.
6 days X 0.33 = 1.98
6 days - 1.98 = 4.02

if rounded
6 days X 0.33 = 1.98 => 2
6 days - 2 = 4

OMG, you are RIGHT.
It looks like the Hyper Speed Go is not worth it.

Also, I have a video to share with you. I remember him mentioning how the HyperSpeed was worth it for only one situation.
Listen to him and start watching at 8:30. I hope it helps give you some insight.
Or you can watch the entire video...

 

imnvs

Local Legend
DSG + Agriculturalist means that garlic, turnips, wheat grow in 2 days.

4 * ( 1 - .10 - .25 ) = 4 * .65 = 2.6, drop everything after the decimal to get 2. How do you like that?

Edit to add: And yes, that's how you do it... you take all your time reducers, add them up and subtract from 100%. Multiply that by total grow time, drop any remainder after the decimal.

Ex1: SG + Agriculturalist (10% + 10%) vs Rhubarb: 13 * .80 = 10.4 or 10 days (w/o Agriculturalist: 11 days)
Ex2: DSG + Agriculturalist (25% + 10%) vs Rhubarb: 13 * .65 = 8.45 or 8 days (w/o Agriculturalist: 9 days)
Ex3: HSG + Agriculturalist (33% + 10%) vs Rhubarb: 13 * .57 = 7.41 or 7 days (w/o Agriculturalist: 8 days)
 
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imnvs

Local Legend
Despite my eloquence and the ease with which I math, I'm from the US.

Edit to add: Also, about HSG... it is worth it, but only for things with longer grow times. Short grow times? Not quite so much.

Ex1: SG v Wheat: 3 days, SG + Ag: 3 days
Ex2: DSG v Wheat: 3 days, DSG + Ag: 2 days
Ex3: HSG v Wheat: 2 days, HSG + Ag: 2 days
 
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DSG + Agriculturalist means that garlic, turnips, wheat grow in 2 days.

4 * ( 1 - .10 - .25 ) = 4 * .65 = 2.6, drop everything after the decimal to get 2. How do you like that?
I was so mesmerized by the formula...
I guess we can round it and make it 3.
I wonder if CA programmed to round the numbers...

EDIT: I realized it's impossible to grow for 1 day...
 
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imnvs

Local Legend
I wonder if CA programmed to round the numbers...
I assume he does it like me. Subtract the reducers from 100%, then multiply what's left by the total time for the crop, drop anything after the decimal. That's the simplest way to do it. In the end it comes out to the exact same result, but your way has you multiplying what you will be subtracting from something else and always rounding that up before doing the subtraction... I just get all the subtraction out of the way at the beginning, multiply, and essentially always round down.

My formula: round down (time x (100% - reducers))
Your formula: time - (round up(time * reducers))
Math lesson time: Why I use my formula and suggest it may be easier/simpler? I'm not using one of my variables in the equation twice and where you're using it the second time I'm replacing it with a 1, and then I wait until the end to do any rounding. You are using one of your variables twice, and you're rounding half way through things. That complicates things and makes it harder for the average person to parse and understand as quickly/easily, in my experience. (Yes, I've tutored maths.)
 
I assume he does it like me. Subtract the reducers from 100%, then multiply what's left by the total time for the crop, drop anything after the decimal. That's the simplest way to do it. In the end it comes out to the exact same result, but your way has you multiplying what you will be subtracting from something else and always rounding that up before doing the subtraction... I just get all the subtraction out of the way at the beginning, multiply, and essentially always round down.

My formula: round down (time x (100% - reducers))
Your formula: time - (round up(time * reducers))
Math lesson time: Why I use my formula and suggest it may be easier/simpler? I'm not using one of my variables in the equation twice and where you're using it the second time I'm replacing it with a 1, and then I wait until the end to do any rounding. You are using one of your variables twice, and you're rounding half way through things. That complicates things and makes it harder for the average person to parse and understand as quickly/easily, in my experience. (Yes, I've tutored maths.)
You sound like a cool teacher...
I wish I have you as my teacher in my high school years. –wish I would enjoy math in the past...

 

imnvs

Local Legend
You sound like a cool teacher...
I wish I have you as my teacher in my high school years. –wish I would enjoy math in the past...
Thank you. I think I would have made a good math teacher, but in an almost ironic twist... how I got quite so good at maths and explaining what I know? It comes from an accelerated math program at the local state college that I was enrolled in. A year before graduating from regular old public education, I'd already taken 4 university level calculus classes and had the university credits to show for them. The pressure of that program kinda burned me on the subject for quite a while, though, so I avoided it. However, Everything up to algebra, still something I use quite often just in my every day life tbh, I've retained at the level I knew it way back over half my life ago.

And I love explaining things, especially things I understand well. I could probably be a really good teacher of everything up to algebra right now, with no further education... but I lack the credentials, technically.
 
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Elenna101

Planter
Skimmed all the math (I like math, I just don't have time right now to go through it) but yeah, I'm pretty sure it always rounds down.

Also, if I recall correctly, hyper speed-grow is rarely if ever worth it on the main farm since even when it does decrease the length of growing time compared to DSG, it doesn't decrease it enough to get in an extra harvest. (I think I checked those numbers assuming the player has Artisan, they might be different with Agriculturalist.) But it does have value in the greenhouse or on Ginger Island, since you can grow stuff year-round. You can get in a couple extra harvests of starfruit each year.
(Plus the fertilizer never goes away in the greenhouse or Ginger Island, if you have stuff planted on top of it. So you only have to collect the radioactive ore once.)
 

tornadojack

Tiller
the game rounds up/down different than I thought.
Everything is simple. Read description carefully:
Deluxe Speed-Gro
Deluxe Speed-Gro.png
Stimulates leaf production. Guaranteed to increase growth rate by at least 25%. Mix into tilled soil.
This is the point to round to shorter time.
 

BlaDe

Planter
Here is how the code works to reduce the growth time.

In the code, each crop has growth phases; the number of days the crop is at each growth stage.

A starfruit has growth phases of 2 3 2 3 3.
A pumpkin has growth phases of 1 2 3 4 3.

To determine how fast a crop will grow, the % is taken of the total growth time. The resulting number is rounded up (e.g. 0.1 rounds up to 1, 2.9 rounds up to 3), and numbers taken off each growth phase.

Lets use starfruit with deluxe speed gro and agriculturalist as an example. 13 days to grow, 13 * 0.35 = 4.65. This rounds up to 5, so 5 days are to be taken off the days to grow. A starfruit has growth phases of 2 3 2 3 3. Phases are cycled through, with days being removed until 5 days have been removed. The first phase can never go 0, but subsequent phases can. So the phases end up being 1 2 1 2 2, so 8 days to grow.
Consider pumpkins. Like starfruit, 13 days to grow. Phases of 1 2 3 4 3. Since first phase can never be 0, it becomes 1 1 2 3 2, with 1 more day to discount, so the cycle goes through again. The final phases are 1 0 2 3 2, so 8 days to grow.

Do note on 1.4 there was a bug that caused Pumpkins to lose a discount day (there is a final fully grown growth stage set at 99999, one of the days was lost to this)
 

hexnessie

Sodbuster
Here is how the code works to reduce the growth time.
This is... complicated.

How would I calculate the growth stages for Qi's Crop WITHOUT Agriculturalist? I.e. is there any point in investing in Hyper SG while still staying with Artisan?
 

Elenna101

Planter
This is... complicated.

How would I calculate the growth stages for Qi's Crop WITHOUT Agriculturalist? I.e. is there any point in investing in Hyper SG while still staying with Artisan?
Incidentally, the wiki shows how long each crop takes to grow with each combination of fertilizer and farming perk. It's on the page for the crop, not the seed - e.g. check the Qi Fruit page, not the Qi Bean page. I think the pumpkin one was wrong a while back (before the bug fix Blade mentioned), but hopefully they're all correct now.
For Qi fruit, it says that with DSG + Artisan you get a harvest every 3 days, while with HSG + Artisan you get a harvest every other day. I know that one's definitely correct, because I just used hyper speed-gro to finish that quest.

But anyways, here's the math, for fun.

With no fertilizer or perks, Qi fruit takes 4 days to grow. With DSG, you lose 0.25*4 = 1 day from that, so it takes three days.
With HSG, you lose 0.33 * 4 = 1.33 days, which rounds up to 2 days taken off, so it takes two days.
So HSG does improve it.

You don't really need to know the exact length of each grown cycle for any reason (since that bug was fixed), but here's the math on that.

Qi fruit has 4 growth cycles, each of which takes 1 day, or in other words the lengths are 1 1 1 1.
With DSG, the one day taken off can't be taken from the first stage, since the seed stage must have length at least 1. So the second stage is decreased by 1 and the lengths of the stages become 1 0 1 1 (i.e. the second stage is removed).
With HSG, the second stage is decreased by 1, and then the third stage is decreased by 1, for a total of two days removed as above. So the lengths become 1 0 0 1 (i.e the second and third stages are skipped).
You can see this matches what's shown on the wiki page for Qi fruit.

Also, if I recall correctly, hyper speed-grow is rarely if ever worth it on the main farm since even when it does decrease the length of growing time compared to DSG, it doesn't decrease it enough to get in an extra harvest. (I think I checked those numbers assuming the player has Artisan, they might be different with Agriculturalist.) But it does have value in the greenhouse or on Ginger Island, since you can grow stuff year-round. You can get in a couple extra harvests of starfruit each year.
(Plus the fertilizer never goes away in the greenhouse or Ginger Island, if you have stuff planted on top of it. So you only have to collect the radioactive ore once.)
This was incorrect. What I was thinking of was that it doesn't improve the number of harvests for the high-value, long growth time crops like starfruit, melons, and pumpkins. It does increase the number of harvests you can get of crops that take either 4, 7, 8, or 10 days (without any fertilizer), if my math is right.
 

hexnessie

Sodbuster
OK so maybe it's not that I can't do math and more that I can't read the wiki?

When I check both beets and Qi Fruit in the wiki, for DSG (without Aggro), the growth times are shown as 5 days for beets and 4 days for Qi Fruit. Or so I thought. But according to the calculations - and actual in game results - beets on DSG take 4 days.

Here's how I was reading it for beets:

beet.png


Plant on Monday (day 1), takes until Friday to fully grow = 5 days.

Ingame, you plant on Monday, and harvest on Thursday = 4 days.

Please help me stop being crazy about it. How can I possibly not be able to read a simple table ;______;
 

Elenna101

Planter
Plant on Monday (day 1), takes until Friday to fully grow = 5 days.

Ingame, you plant on Monday, and harvest on Thursday = 4 days.

Please help me stop being crazy about it. How can I possibly not be able to read a simple table ;______;
The day of planting isn't counted as a day (or the day it grows up isn't counted, whichever one, or you can think of it as the number of nights/update cycles that need to pass). For example, for the starting parsnips (4 days), if you plant them on the 1st of spring (Monday) they will be ready on the 5th (Friday), because 1 + 4 = 5.
So the beets in the picture on the wiki are taking 4 days (same as the unmodified parsnips), and that matches with the math. You can also see that without any modifiers they will grow up on Sunday, two days later, as expected.

That doesn't answer the question of why they're ready on Thursday in your game. Silly question, but are you 100% sure that you don't have Agriculturalist, and you were using DSG and not HSG? I can't think of anything else that would affect it.
 

hexnessie

Sodbuster
Thanks for helping.

I'll have to sleep on it. I have some weird block in my mind regarding the number of days or nights, argh. I will retest this when I get back to autumn again...
 

hexnessie

Sodbuster
Silly question, but are you 100% sure that you don't have Agriculturalist, and you were using DSG and not HSG? I can't think of anything else that would affect it.

.... aaaand I feel like a complete utter dumb person now, because of course I switched to Agriculturalist when I started the Qi crop challenge and totally forgot.

Mystery of the beets solved. I shall now crawl away in disgrace and lick my wounds.
 
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